No fancy cell awaits convicted paedophile and murderer Muhammad Al Ramaly, instead today at noon, Saudi time, Al Ramaly will face the executioner’s sword and his dead, lifeless body will be hung on a stake for all to see – a monstrous death for a monster.
Al Ramaly in a perverted spree kidnapped and raped five children, leaving one to die in the desert. His modus operandi was to pick up the boys in his car and take them off to a secret location and rape them. Most of them were found a day or two after they were abducted, and told police that they had been abused
Although rare, this form of execution is employed as a deterrent and though reprehensible to some sensibilities, it serves its purpose. You will not hear of the scandal that plagues Ireland in Saudi Arabia.
In Ireland unfortunately, of the hundreds of known cases of clerical paedophilia, few have even served jail time and those that have do so at the expense of the taxpayer to the tune of over 80,000 Euro per year. That to us seems a lot more perverse as it punishes the state, the people, and the victim for the crime. Meanwhile the criminal has entitlements that many on the outside cannot afford or enjoy. There’s a lot Ireland and Europe can learn from Muslim states.
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الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:42 am
In the Indo today it had a story about a Dublin man who had graphic scenes of child sexual abuse on his computer (films and pictures). His counsel appealed that a prison sentence would not be helpful as it doesn’t offer treatment – TREATMENT!
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:02 am
U obviously hate Ireland so much why dont you just leave it’ll never be an Islam state
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:20 pm
Our legal system is far superior to the Saudi one. It offers at least a fair trial. While the actions of the man are disgusting they are no worse than what Mohammed did to Aisha. Once again the barbarity of islam raises its ugly head.
The threat of punishment often does not put off criminals because it is the fact that they think there is little chance of getting caught that spurs them on to do it – they don’t think of the punishment when committing their crime.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:42 pm
Nobody likes to see any human being been killed. But everyone must at least admit, when they hear of a child being sexually abused and in many cases killed, we all want to take revenge! for that child. I am not saying that there should be any vigilantly groups going around but let’s face it, if there was a similar punishment in Ireland, I don’t think you will be finding many paedophiles in Ireland.
While on the same subject in Bulgaria there was an eleven year old girl gave birth to a baby girl. She was married to the father of the child. He was nineteen years old.
Usman
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:50 pm
Muhammad didn’t nothing but act according to and within the social strictures of that time. But again we will not be lectured by a man who condones the vile practice of homosexuality.
Clearly the threat of punishment has had a demonstrable effect in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, hence the reason there’s no mention of the pedophilia that has defined Ireland in recent years.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:07 pm
Perhaps the paedophiles just marry their victims in Saudi and that is why there is so little cases of it. You see Mujaahid no matter how you try to wriggle around arguments and bullshit you always get caught.
Mujaahid you attacked me for being a moral relativist in the forum (which I am not), yet you excuse Muhammed through moral relativism. Time and time again you get caught out. Can you not see for yourself that you constantly get caught out for being actually quite stupid? Not just wrong, but stupid.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:29 pm
Or perhaps it really isn’t a problem in Saudi Arabia Ross. It seems silly of you to justify Ireland’s very obvious problems through speculation.
If I were a moral relativist I would not accept that there is a standard moral practice for all people and all times – I do, so your infantile rant returns to you.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:40 pm
No you excused Muhammed through moral relativism. You are not being consistent.
It is a problem in Saudi Arabia. It is not speculation. Men marry children as young as 8, perhaps younger – that is paedophilia ( I doubt they hold off on the sex till their 17 or 18). Please Mujaahid, present a decent argument.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 5:32 pm
A moral relativist does not believe in a standard set of morals for all time and all places Ross, Mujaahid and all other practicing Muslims do. What was morally right then is morally right now and what was morally wrong then is still morally wrong today. That’s not relativism.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 5:37 pm
Absolutely Marwan but let me add something because I know Ross will pick up on what you said. In a morally relativist society, present circumstances and habits form the basis for morality. So while we say without any equivocation that it is morally right to marry a young woman who is both physically and mentally mature, we accept that in modern western society this is not tolerated. So while it is morally right, it is not socially acceptable.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 5:53 pm
Right so it is morally right to have sex with your child bride at the age of 8 if she has had her period?!
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:14 pm
In this society early marriages are socially unacceptable Ross.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:51 pm
I asked whether it is morally right not whether it is socially socially acceptable in this society.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:30 pm
The Irish clergy have brought disgrace on the church and for once I agree with Mujaahid here. Offenders should have been punished and thrown out of the priesthood.
However, how many people know that Paedophilia will be legal in the EU when the Lisbon treaty is ratified in January 2010? The treaty that Ireland voted YES to had the clause on paedoplilia removed.
(edited – Rawafid Shia are not considered within the fold of Islam and any references to their works will be removed.)
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:59 pm
Already answered Ross.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:19 pm
Edit: that’s a disgusting comment and totally dishonest of you. Islam does not condone that perversion and as you well know pedophilia is defined as sexual relations with PRE-PUBESCENT females.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:35 pm
No it’s not. It is the condition of being SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO CHILDREN. It is 100% honest and factual. The koran sanctions engaging in sexual activity with children, Mohammed did it and you condone it. None of what I have said is opinion, it is fact. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophilia. I’ll get the Oxford English Dictionary definition of it if you want.
الأربعاء 17 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:52 pm
Mujaahid,
What would you call this behaviour of Mohammed, and do you accept Al-Bukhari?
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: When I got married, Allah’s Apostle said to me, “What type of lady have you married?” I replied, “I have married a matron’ He said, “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?” Jabir also said: Allah’s Apostle said, “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:05 am
Jabir ibn Abdullah was a young man when he married (some say 15) , his choice of an older woman, a matron was unusual and the Prophet’s fatherly advice was that he marry someone more his age so he could have fun. The Arabic word ???? is a post pubescent female.
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:22 am
Answer my post Mujaahid
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:30 am
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=46415
People with pedophilia have fantasies, urges or behaviors that involve illegal sexual activity with a prepubescent child.
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:56 am
my uncle-in-law got married last month and he was 35. This, even now, is seen as a bit late in the game. So if you think back 1400 years how strange would this have seemed? So just because YOU consider marrying a girl and only having a physical relationship with her after she has started her periods is strange well thats you, nowadays. But if you go back 1400 years ago this wouldnt have been strange. This, therefore, gives us NO platform on which to judge morally, as we have 21st century morals.
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:05 am
Mujaahid the Oxford English Dictionary defines a paedophile as a person who is sexually attracted to children.
Haha Whelan the muslim argument falls apart again. I thought morals transcend time?? That’s what Marwan and Mujaahid said anyway. What’s your view on that???
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:24 pm
Ross, I’m really shocked. You need to broaden your horizon and grow over thinking within the boundaries of the Irish culture. You have to admit that no one has ever classified his culture as a default criterion on the bases of which worldwide practices should be evaluated. Yes, time and place profoundly impact on perceptions and norms. Compare the marriage age in Ireland today to that in Ireland 40 years ago. Moreover, people’s physical readiness for marriage varies from one place to another. The claim, that Muhammad married ‘Aisha at the age of 13 years old is a debatable issue in the Muslim history since Muslim historian gave various narrations in this regard. Some Muslim historians stated that ‘Aisha was 18 years old when Muhammad married her. But even if ‘Aisha got married at the age of 13, it should be marked that physically she was ready for marriage. That was not a break to the norms of their time. Most importantly ‘Aisha led that happy life with Muhammad which many women and men worldwide are missing. Happiness is a crucial issue, yet you tend ignore. Moreover, ‘Aisha played a fundamental role in Islamic education after Muhammad’s demise. There was a need for a young person to be next to Muhammad and learn from him to pass authentic information afterwards. The significance of this marriage is crystal clear but we have to take off our prejudice hat.
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:23 pm
Triple X, seems an appropriate moniker given your horrendous views. When all is said and done you’re saying that what Muhammad did was OK, and even ’significant’. You muddy the waters with various opinions regarding Aeesha’s age but say nothing of the Bukhari hadith that say she was 6 when she got engaged and 9 when the marriage was consummated. What we would like to know is if you think that kind of thing is OK today?
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:54 pm
Paul,I think you are beating around the ambush. Let me repeat. Time and space are two essential elements that affect the norms and perceptions. To judge an event that occured centuries ago according to today’s norms is logically not accepted. You have to think of it within its cultural context.
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:25 pm
Ambush??????? man you Muzzies can’t get fighting out of your minds! Notice how you never dealt with the Bukhari hadiths – too uncomfortable for ya?
So you’re not only a moral relativist, but you’re also a cultural relativist. Why don’t you try answering the question Mujaahid wouldn’t: Do you think it’s OK for a Muslim man to marry a young girl who has started her periods???
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:31 pm
It is rather intriguing that many people really couldn’t care less about child sex as long as the male is not too old,preferably between 11/12 and under 30.(Alfie Patten 12 years old). Young school girls regularly engage themselves in such, and take pride in the boyfirends age.(The older the better)school age that is, somewhere between 14-18.Not much said until pregnancy. abortion marriage porn sodomy rape or a STD gets in the way!!!How picky we’ve become!!
الأربعاء 24 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:41 am
The author praises Saudi barbarism for the type of crime his own prophet was known to greatly enjoy. Then the defense is offered that’s it was ok because those were the cultural norms of the day. Too right they were the norms because it was the ******** prophet who set the norms of the day, wasn’t it? This country may have it’s problems but it’ll be a cold day in hell before we’ll need, or accept, any lessons from a barbaric hell hole like Saudi Arabia. Here’s an idea, take your own hint and take yourself off to the “Kingdom” and stay there.
الاثنين 29 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:31 pm
What I find amusing is the way all these frauds all nod sagely at the ‘justice’ being meted out.
The only crime here was that they were boys, its OK to rape girls in Islam, the Saudi Royal family keep ‘herds’ of children for their abusive ways.
Holy? Righteous? Islam is a failures religions and it has failed except amongst the destructive. Islam is doomed to fail because it is built on lies, deceit and hate.
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:02 pm
Saudi Arabia is such a haven of virtue isn’t it -
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200705/gay-saudi-arabia
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:06 pm
It doesn’t claim perfection jack, but it doesn’t condone perversion either.
الاثنين 21 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:19 pm
Suadi Arabia is an utterly detestable place where they allow a 60 year old man to rape and beat a 12 year old girl legally.
If this man had been picking up little girls and doing the same he would not have even committed a crime, let alone be sentanced to death in the most barbaric way.
الأربعاء 08 محرم 1431 at 3:17 pm
Paul: Firstly I for one don’t believe that the Holy Prophet (saw) consummated his marriage with Aisha at the age of nine; rather she would have been at most 14-15 years old. Now look at 14 years old today, many look much older then what they are, some look like they are in their twenties. Many are very mature mentally and physically. And unfortunately many are sexually active and many have borne children. And today in Ireland it has become acceptable, where as twenty to thirty years ago this was unacceptable in Ireland. Also over forty years ago it was not uncommon to hear of girls of 14 getting married, which was considered the norm then!
Yet you are missing the point during the time of the Holy Prophet (saw)it was a common practise for young girls to marry at a young age (14-15) as long as they were mature to do so. Aisha was described as mature.
This person Ross has accused the Holy Qur’an of endorsing sexual activity with children, I would challenge him to present the very verse that sanctions this! And to Daniel who took the time to look for the Hadith in Bukhari to make his point, I also challenge him to produce any Hadith where Aisha said she was abused, forced, or did not want to be married. Where as we have many Hadith were she praised her husband of being the most caring, loving, and pious person. And when asked about his personality she said he was embodiment of the Holy Qur’an.
In the end I made this point before it is believed by many Christian scholars that Mary the mother of Jesus was between 13 -14 when she was married and some believe she gave birth at the age of 14. And the very same scholars explained that it was the normal practise for that time, because a young girl’s future was to marry and look after the home and bring her children up as good moral people.
Therefore is this not just a case of looking for any excuse to attack Islam! If any of you are Christian and believe in God, it would be better for you sort out your own moral problems before attacking the Noble Prophet of God Muhammad (saw)
“ Ayesha ‘May Allah be pleased with her’ relates that the holy Prophet (saw) said: ‘ the best among you are those who are good to their families and I am the best of those who are to their families’
(Abu Da ‘ud)
Does this sound like a girl who (nauza billah) was abused!
Usman
الأربعاء 08 محرم 1431 at 6:47 pm
Usman it is as far as I know widely accepted that Muhammed married Aisha when she was 6 and consumated the marriage when she was 9 (although I doubt he waited 3 years the sicko, what was he doing marrying a 6 year old anyway). I know Muhammed’s life is the model for all muslims therefore marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at the age of 9 is acceptable in islam. I made a genuine mistake in saying the the koran sanctions it so I apologise for that, I probably meant to say the hadith.
الأربعاء 08 محرم 1431 at 8:39 pm
That’s a ridiculous conclusion Ross and nowhere in Islamic texts does it stipulate 9 yrs of age. The determining factors are both physical maturity (menses) and mental capacity. It would of course be much later in Ireland and the west, given that mental maturity takes a lot longer to manifest itself
الخميس 09 محرم 1431 at 9:39 am
That defense didn’t work for Gary Glitter and it won’t work for you Liam. Try again
الخميس 09 محرم 1431 at 1:03 pm
Ross firstly thanks you for your apology. Have you ever read life of the Holy Prophet (saw) in what he said and thought! If not please at least read about his life and then judge him. It is not possible for an evil immoral person to create goodness in the hearts of others and to promote righteous, again I want to share another Hadith related by Aisha:
The Holy prophet never beat anyone neither a women nor servant although he fought in the cause of Allah. He was never harmed by anyone. He would not avenge himself. But whenever a sacred place of Allah was desecrated he would take revenge for the sake of Allah (Muslim)
Again is this a woman who sounds like she was abused. Here from his beloved wife came words
Of praise. I would suggest you read about his life before calling him a (na auzu billah) a sick co. I am quite happy to send you any book to any place for you to read.
As for most of the Muslims believing or accepting that the Holy Prophet (saw) married at six and consummated at 9, actually this not the case! Also Hadith are not the words of almighty Allah so if any Hadith is not in line with the Qur’anic teaching it is to be rejected.
Usman
الخميس 09 محرم 1431 at 7:29 pm
Usman, I strongly recommend you read some decent literature on the status of hadith lest you continue to make erroneous statements such as those above.
These links will provide ample evidence on the importance of ahadith.
1. http://abdurrahman.org/sunnah/thestatusofsunnah.pdf
2. http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/oblizedtointerpret.html
3. http://abdurrahman.org/sunnah/thehadithisproofitself.pdf