O’ Muslim, it is your duty as a citizen of Ireland to work for its best interests, and who could doubt that establishing the authority of Allah in the land is in the best interests of Ireland? To remove injustice and establish fairness, to remove moral degradation, immorality and licentiousness and establish propriety, righteousness and restraint and to establish tawheed (the worship of the Only One worthy of worship) are surely noble Islamic aims.
Nonetheless, we must first seek to establish Shariah in our own lives – for Allah has said He will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. Only by changing ourselves will we bring about the changes we hope for in society. And once we do Allah has promised those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that he will of a surety grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion, the one which He has chosen for them; and that He will change (their state) after the fear in which they (lived), to one of security and peace.
Therefore, your first duty O’Muslim is to Allah and His messenger, and He the Most High has called you to change yourselves, to be the very best Muslims who believe and work righteous deeds. The rest, He has promised as an inheritance. Implementing Shariah in our own lives is our primary duty, establishing Allah’s authority in the land will naturally follow. The two are mutually inclusive. Play your part in establish Allah’s authority in the land – change yourselves!
Related posts:
الأحد 08 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:45 pm
” who could doubt that establishing the authority of Allah in the land is in the best interests of Ireland? ”
Nearly every Irish person who knows anything of shariah, that’s who, plus quite a few irish muslims or muslims living in Ireland who’ve seen the effects of attempts to impose shariain other countries.
الأحد 08 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:59 pm
I like to praise myself and others who posted, such as Thersites who has successfully forced mpac.ie hand in showing that they are indeed extremists.
Guys, you fell for the trap, everyone knows that mpac.ie are radical Muslims who want to force Islam and Sharia upon Ireland’s people.
John
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:06 am
Correction. EVERY irish person. these rants get more deluded as the days go by.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:53 am
Words such as ‘extremist’ and ‘radical’ have no currency any more John. When they are leveled at all and sundry they tend to lose their impact. As all practicing Muslims recognise the superiority of Al Islam over every other religion, accept that Shariah is the only legislation requiring our full obedience and believe in the coming Islamic domination of the world then I guess we’re all extremist. But if all are extremist then surely none are.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:49 pm
You said in a recent post that:
“Ethnicity incorporates culture into group identity. Consequently, when you speak ill of Muslim culture, you demean our ethnicity and can rightfully be deemed a filthy racist.”
So therefore by suggesting Islam is superior is by your own definition is racist, a filthy racist no less.
Tell me Mujaahid, do you play chess?
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:36 pm
Do you think religions that encourage cannibalism, child sacrifice, the drinking of blood and eating of flesh etc are all equal John?
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:24 pm
No I don’t. Do you think a religion that supports having sex with nine year old girls are equal? Oh wait a second, no you don’t, you consider such a religion as being superior.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:37 pm
I don’t know of a religion, except of course the Christian Church of God, that supports such things John.
I do know that Islam teaches that physical and mental readiness are prerequisites for marriage and that in times past such physical and mental maturity was evidenced earlier in certain regions of the world.
Less than 100yrs ago here, the legal age of consensual marriage was 10yrs of age – regardless of whether menstruation(natures indication of physical readiness)- something I as a Muslim find quite abhorrent.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:59 pm
yeah pity we can’t all just have ‘revelations’ that suddenly justify what we’re doing
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 9:02 pm
Having sex with a nine year old is sick no matter how ready they are physically or mentally. You seem to be suggesting that menstruation is “natures indication of physical readiness”.
So you’re saying that sex with say a 12 year old girl is ok, provided that she had her period and is mentally ready?
If you ready thinks that then you are even worse than what I thought you were.
Also, you always try to take events from history or other situations to defend Islam. By saying “they did it too”, does not makes it right.
Anyone who have sex with kids should be punished by the full power of the law (Irish law – which is greater than Allah’s – my opinion)
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 9:38 pm
I find it difficult to receive and accept any instruction on morality from a person or persons who defend homosexuality, adultery, licentiousness and every other kind of immorality. What do you think menstruation indicates John?
In Ireland the legal consensual age is 16 John. In Islam no one, male or female is permitted to have any sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage. Herein we have a dilemma, Irish law appears to encourage sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage by stipulating 18 as the consensual age for marriage but 16 for sexual relations – how very odd and extremely disgusting at the same time.
I also think that anyone who has sex with children (and I use the Islamic understanding in this regard) should be punished by the full extent of the law, unfortunately we’ve yet to see one of your priests serve time for their reprehensible actions.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:59 pm
“As all practicing Muslims recognise the superiority of Al Islam over every other religion, accept that Shariah is the only legislation requiring our full obedience and believe in the coming Islamic domination of the world then I guess we’re all extremist”
Well, as Muslims for Secular Democracy and the Muslim Council of Britain are both organising demonstrations against Islam4Britain- an organisation whose writings you republish without acknowledgement- which is caaling for sharia in the U.K.- is this also adapted from one of their posts, perhaps?- it looks as if either a lot of muslims disagree with you or they aren’t practising properly.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:33 pm
We certainly do not republish any articles from Al Muhajiroon or any of its offshoots, nor would we. Your accusation is not only unfounded, it is frankly dishonest.
Perhaps you should read what is written before jumping to silly conclusions. We have said:
1. that all practicing Muslims acknowledge the superiority of Islam over all other religions, ideologies and legislations. Any Muslim who disagrees with that is either ignorant of his/her religion, weak or a sinner.
2. We have said that Muslims should want what is best for their country, and we fervently believe that Allah’s authority is what is best for Ireland and every other country. Any Muslim who disagrees with that is either ignorant of his/her religion, weak or a sinner.
3. We have also said that Allah has promised dominion in the land to those who have firm belief in Him and work righteous deeds. Any Muslim who disagrees with that is either ignorant of his/her religion, weak or a sinner.
4. And finally we have called Muslims to be righteous, do good deeds and be firm in belief so that Allah’s promise might be fulfilled. Any Muslim who disagrees with that is either ignorant of his/her religion, weak or a sinner.
Any march we advocate is a spiritual one which will bring about real change, not the publicity stunts of the Choudery gang.
الاثنين 09 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:52 pm
Well, I checked up on one of your postings a few days ago and the key phrase and arguments were identical to one of the mjjies. If you thought the theory of evolution were true, you coul argue it was a case of parallel evolution.
” Any Muslim who disagrees with that is either ignorant of his/her religion, weak or a sinner.”
There are obviously a lot of ignorantm weak and/or sinful muslims then. However, in fact, the “we” in your claim means “we few” rather than “we- every muslim”.
“Any march we advocate is a spiritual one which will bring about real change, not the publicity stunts of the Choudery gang.”
Except that most muslims will probably be as enthusiastic about your proposals as they about the mujjies..
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:10 am
I’m not going to indulge your unfounded silliness over Al Muhajiroon.
I accept that not all agree, in which case they fall under either of the three categories I’ve offered. Any Muslim who wishes to contest that is quite free to do so with evidence from the Quran and Sunnah.
Bear in mind the ummah is those upon the truth and upholding it – it could be one person, it could be many – numbers are not important, truth is.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:47 am
Mujaahid, I never ever defended nor would defend homosexuality or adultery.
Regarding licentiousness – you got me there, I did had sex before marriage in ways that would delight. but you know something, it was always with a woman of similar age to myself and not a kid which you seem to think is ok.
You know something if I see anyone, Muslim or not, Ireland or anywhere else, having sex with a minor I’d break his back. I wouldn’t pretend to be blind and not see.
Reqarding: “…unfortunately we’ve yet to see one of your priests serve time for their reprehensible actions. ”
Firstly they not my prists and yes, they should serve time for their actions.
You Mujaahid, have shown yourself in a worse light than I ever imagined. Keep your site going, it’s fantastic Mujaahid. Your site will let people know the true nature of many of the Muslims in Ireland. Keep up the good work Mujaahid, let everyone knows how sick Islam is.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping my cause.
John
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:06 am
Dear Reader’s.
Assalamo Alykum,
please dont be fooled by this person Mujahid.
he does not speak for the majority of Muslim’s in Ireland.
Usman Khan
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:17 am
Dear John, where as I agree with you, that MPACIE is Radical,and forceful.
and they don’t speak for moat of the Muslim’s in Ireland, yet could you please tell me, how old was Mary when she conceived Jesus?
Usman Khan
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:23 am
Ah, it begins. Tell us Usman, what do you disagree with and please supply evidence from the Quran and Sunnah for your position. I’ll afford you every opportunity to defend yourself.
By the way, MPAC.ie has never claimed to speak for the majority – do you?
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:54 am
You don’t have to be nice to people like Usman, Mujaahid. Sahib lovers like him would have us clean the toilets and sweep the streets because we can’t be too ‘forceful’ and dare ask for equal rights. Notice how he agrees with a kafir and disagrees with the Quran and hadith. You shouldn’t even give people like him the time of day.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:56 am
Usman, Mary was supposedly a virgin when she conceived and if i’m not mistaken that is in islamic teachings too – but that’s irrelevant because both religions are a load of rubbish.
As for you Mujaahid you are very careful not to openly endorse paedophilia as practised by Muhammed (do not censor this, just look up the definition of paedophile, I am stating fact, not opinion) nevertheless I get the sense that you are okay with people having sex with women as young as as 9 provided it is sanctioned in the koran or hadith which it clearly is as Muhammed suddenly had one of his many very fortunate revelations allowing him to commit acts which he was already engaged in. It is sad that you cannot admit that your morals are clearly not divinely inspired when you would normally find yourself disgusted at such behaviour – a clear indication morals are derived from somewhere other than allah otherwise you wouldn’t find yourself disgusted by it.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:56 am
Hello Usman Khan, glad to hear that MPACIE don’t speak for the majority. It seems his site is doing the most damage to Muslims in Ireland.
I got no idea how old Mary was when she conceived Jesus, wasn’t it an immaculate conception – without sin? The truth is I’m not very religious at all (although I’m not an Atheist).
Are you going to suggest that Mary had Jesus at a very young age as a defense for Muslims having sex with minors?
John Kavanagh
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:58 am
Marwin, Muslims like you don’t want equal rights, you want control. You even used the word kafir – I am and never will be your slave and you can’t sell me at market.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:02 am
Salams Marwan, if we don’t then we’re no better than him, are we? He’s been given an opportunity to present his evidence, though I suspect he’ll be a one post wonder with nothing else to offer – we’ll see.
He’s got two positions he can take: either he can prove we are wrong from the Quran and Sunnah and the consenses of the scholars – in which case we win too, as correction upon the truth is a good thing. Or he must admit that we are speaking the truth but we shouldn’t – in which case he exposes himself as one who advocates deception. Again, I suspect he’ll not post again.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:15 am
Ross – at that time and in that place the actions of Muhammad were normal and acceptable in society, I do not find his actions morally reprehensible at all but see them as part and parcel of the times and circumstances.
It is not considered so today in many nations, though as I’ve mentioned they hardly hold the high moral ground when they advocate homosexuality,immorality etc. That said, a Muslim living in Ireland or any other state that prohibits early marriages is obligated to obey the law of the land in as much as it does not contravene the higher law of Allah. As early marriages are not an obligation, then this conversation is moot.
I’m not sure why Usman spoke of Maryam (Mary), but then I’m not sure why he posted in the first place – did he think he would please the kuffar? Anyway, there are a range of texts that state Maryam conceived Isa (Jesus) at an early age – but again why that is an issue is anyone’s guess. Care to explain Usman?
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:17 am
Mujaahid, have you noticed that I’ve being winning all the debates around here. Can you please try to increase the challenge.
You are making yourselves look like idiots, especially Marwan who can’t even insult me in one of his recent posts, when he tried. Even Whelan showed more promise than him.
Come on guys, up the challenge. I want the play to be a little tougher.
John
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 5:36 am
“homosexuality,immorality etc.”
Apart from the fact that you believe god said homosexuality is immoral, without giving a reason, what reason do you have for regarding homosexuality as immoral, Mujaahid? Indeed, why do you regard anything as moral or immoral except because you think god says it is or is not so?
“at that time and in that place the actions of Muhammad were normal and acceptable in society, I do not find his actions morally reprehensible at all but see them as part and parcel of the times and circumstances.”
Which means that you accept absolute moral relativism. Anything that is normal and acceptable in society at any time or place is not morally reprehensible in your view- which gives you even less reason to disapprove of homosexuality- or anything else anyone does if what they do is normal and acceptable in society.
The reason for objecting to Mohammed’s marrying a six-year-old child and having sex with her when she was nine years old is that a child of that age is neither physically nor mentally mature enough to give informed consent to what she does. in the example of Aisha, it’s worth noting that she wasn’t actually “consulted” about her marriags anyway until after Mohammed and her father had arranged it. In the case of contemporary homosexuality, what adults choose to do is no concern of the state or anyone else as long as it does no direct harm to anyone else. If god and those who imagine they are his followers do object, they had better produce better reasons than personal distaste and a vague conviction that it is somehow wrong.
In fact, were the actions of Mohammed part and parcel of the times and circumstances? Given the emphasis on that one incident and the justification given at great length I rather doubt it. If it was part and parcel of the times and circumstances there would have been no need to treat it at such length. Early marriage may well have been common then, but marriage between middle-aged men and six-year-old children almost certainly wasn’t, or there wouldn’t have been so much need to justify it.
You are also mistaken in your claim that “In Islam no one, male or female is permitted to have any sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage.” Muslim men are still permitted to have sex with their slave women. They usually don’t because slavery is illegal in most of the world, but if you base your laws on the quran and sunnah there is nothing illegal about that now; it is merely another example of muslims’ obeying local laws while they have to.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:08 am
Cop on you sap. Man you people are so grossly incompetent it stresses me out people who obviously spend WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too much time on the internet cant even look up maybe a debate between a muslim scholar and a christian scholar? Lets take a look at muhammad(SAW) being a peadophile, astighfirullah, and put it into context. My mother when she was 11 years old was MADE by my grandmother to move into her grandmother’s(my great-grandmother’s) house and look after the poor woman until she died. My mother was 11 and she was forced to do this, she was taken from school and her friends and her childhood and made go to work and care for, cook for and manage an elderly woman. This was only 30 years ago, if that happened now it would be considered child abuse and dont deny that, it would be. Now boys Im going to try make this easy for you to understand ok? the further baack in history you go, the harder life was. And so people were harder, children grew up a lot faster and were responsible for a lot more than the children of today. Girls also got their period years before girls nowadays, why? Because they developed faster. Get over it lads, as John said, up the challenge, these arguments are pathetic and a time waste.
And Usman we speak for the majority that are too scared of the dictators in charge to speak out against them.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:35 am
“And so people were harder,”
…and islam ewflects the psychology and tries to revive the hardness of those times because- it says- god wants it. Presuma
“children grew up a lot faster and were responsible for a lot more than the children of today. Girls also got their period years before girls nowadays, why? Because they developed faster.”
Do you have any evidence for this? In fact, as people were less well-nourished than today physical development usually was slower than it is today. Furthermore, the “growing-up” was of a different kind- there was much less to know- and people knew all they needed to survive early. It was not a matter of growing up more quickly; there was much less to grow up to.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:49 am
Things were harder than they are now, no doubt. However we have learned and things are better today. That’s what you suggesting Whelan, right?
Islam wants us to forget all that we learned and move backwards.
Also can you provide scientific evidence that children grow up faster?
When I said to up the challenge, I meant you guys (Mujaahid, Whelan and Marwin), do try to keep up guys. I said it very clearly.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:50 am
I don’t need any other reason Thersites. The fact that Allah and His messenger said it is sufficient for me.
You’ve got that the wrong way round, to me and all other believers universal morals are immutable and not subject to social, cultural or historical circumstances. There is in our view only One who has the authority to make such universal dictates – Allah. He the Most High has always condemned homosexuality, and so do we.
So your only objection, as you state above is consent. To me that is morally reprehensible because you are saying that should a six year old give said consent then you’d have no issue. Yet you cannot give any evidence to determine when one is in full control of ones faculties. Many ‘adults’ claim they were duped into sexual relations (date rape, etc) so obviously age isn’t a sure fire method for determining mental capacity. You have set a dangerous precedent that cannot justifiably be stopped given your relativist approach. Islam insists on a physical and a mental maturity that trumps your specious consent approach anytime.
There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that societal and climatic conditions shape the rate of maturity both mental and physical. Why don’t you go investigate.
Aisha was engaged to be married prior to her engagement to Muhammad, like I said it was an acceptable social practice which is why Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, had no qualms in handing her over in marriage. For the virgin, her consent is silence – had Aisha objected she had every right to say so.
Your ’so long as it does no harm to others’ principle assumes that homosexuality does no harm. many would disagree with that assessment. But like I’ve said before, I don’t need to engage in semantic somersaults nor specious analogies – for me and all other believers the fact that Allah and His messenger said so is sufficient. It is an immutable moral law given by the Lawgiver and nothing you or anyone else has to say will change that.
I stand corrected on the last part, in general Islam stipulates marriage as the legitimate means through which one may engage in sexual relations. However, as you correctly stated if said individual owned slaves then it was also permissible to have relations with them. It is also an allowance on the battlefield when one captures what is known as ‘right hand possessions’. Having said that, slavery is something the Prophet discouraged, indeed the freeing of slaves was considered a noble deed and many of the companions did so – in fact in the lifetime of the Prophet the practice of buying and selling slaves was virtually done away with. If you or anyone else took the time to read up on the conditions of owning slaves, you’d know that they are far removed from the picture of slavery westerners imposed on Africans and other races. I’ve gone through the bother of explaining that as you are obviously hoping to affect sensibilities by raising the issue. Again I say it is difficult to accept a moral message from one who actively condones homosexuality.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:50 am
I forgot to ask, do you guys actually feel sexually aroused by young girls who had their period. I can’t honestly believe the majority of Muslims do. Do they?
John
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:01 pm
Is that your idea of a logical argument John? For a country that spews out more pedophiles than any other, has an adult industry catering for ‘young teen’ fetishes, and an increase of young rapes, your question smacks of irony.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:25 pm
Whelan that is a pathetic argument and you know it yourself. Stop making excuses and accept the fact that Muhammed was a paedophile. None of you have addressed the other issue about his very convenient revelations.
Homosexuality between two consenting adults harms nobody. Paedophilia does, that is why Thersites (who consistently shows up your ridiculous beliefs)can lecture you on morality.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:51 pm
To all, the reason I was asking the age of Mary is, because, as far as I know when someone devoted their lives to serve the temple as, Mary’s mother
devoted Mary to the service of God, Mary must have been between the ages of 12-13, and A young girl during that time would have been expected to be married around 14- 15. So She must have been eighter 13,14 when she concived. My point was, Aisha would have been 14-15 when her marriage was done. As far as I know if was between 9-10 when the marriage was agreed upon. the marriage was consemated after hijra. So Aisha would have been 14-15 when her marriage took place, and as already mentioned by others she was very mature both physically and mentally. So Why would John or anyone else object, today and for many years you would have found many teenage girls both physically and mentally ready for sexual intercourse. Today many girls are having children at young ages. Dont miss understand me I am not saying that every girl or boy should be married at this age, because they might not be both physically and mentally ready for marriage. And during the time of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the time of Mary it was an excepted thing that most mature girls were married at 14 or 15. And we must not forget the Holy Prophet (saw) was Married, Just Mary was married to Joseph who was also much older then Mary.
So my point is only that why people pick on the Holy Prophet (saw)and accuse him of wrongful actions. when Mary was also married and a young Age also.
Usman
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:27 pm
“I don’t need any other reason [to think homosexuality wrong]. The fact that Allah and His messenger said it is sufficient for me.”
Allah allegedly said so according to his self-proclaimed messenger- one of his many self-proclaimed messengers, actually.
“for me and all other believers the fact that Allah and His messenger said so is sufficient. It is an immutable moral law given by the Lawgiver and nothing you or anyone else has to say will change that.”
in fact, even if allah actually exists and has condemned something, unless that condemnation is supported by external argument, it is not an immutable moral law but a personal opinion with no more validity than any other personal opinion. Allah’s dislike of homosexuality is no more an immutable moral law than my dislike of parsnips. The difference is, I don’t forbid people who,like parsnips from eating them.
“at that time and in that place the actions of Muhammad [having sex with a nine-year-old girl] were normal and acceptable in society, I do not find his actions morally reprehensible at all but see them as part and parcel of the times and circumstances.”
” to me and all other believers universal morals are immutable and not subject to social, cultural or historical circumstances.”
Come on Mujaahid, make up your mind, which is it? Is it normal and acceptable to have sex with nine-year-old children now or not?
“There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that societal and climatic conditions shape the rate of maturity both mental and physical. Why don’t you go investigate.”
I have done. Why don’t you produce evidence. There is a great deal of evidence that nutrition has a much greater effect on physical maturity than any other factor.
“So your only objection, as you state above is consent. To me that is morally reprehensible because you are saying that should a six year old give said consent then you’d have no issue. ”
You really ought to read before you quote. I said: “The reason for objecting to Mohammed’s marrying a six-year-old child and having sex with her when she was nine years old is that a child of that age is neither physically nor mentally mature enough to give informed consent to what she does.”
in case you don’t understand I’ll repeat it: a child of that age is neither physically nor mentally mature enough to give informed consent to what she does.
Got it, Mujaahid?
“in fact in the lifetime of the Prophet the practice of buying and selling slaves was virtually done away with. If you or anyone else took the time to read up on the conditions of owning slaves, you’d know that they are far removed from the picture of slavery westerners imposed on Africans and other races. ”
Odd, the practice of buying and selling slaves was only done away with
officially in several muslim states in the last hundred years and it still continues with official toleration. As all accounts of the muslim slave trade, with a casualty rate of up to 90% in boys castarted and marched across the Sahara and a casualty rate of about 50% in the trade from East Africa to Arabia- to take two instances- makes it plain that it was even more brutal than the Atlantic trade. Indeed, you need only compare the proportion of the population descended from African slaves in the Americas with those in Arabia. I raised the point of the right of male slave-owners to have sex with their slaves specifically to make it plain that the purported “morality” of sharia is a falsehood even in its own terms.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:31 pm
“My point was, Aisha would have been 14-15 when her marriage was done [consummated].”
What is your source for this claim, Usnman Khan? Nearly all muslims agree, using arguments based on hadith, that Aisha was married to Mohammed when she was six and that the marriage was consummated when she was nine. In Iran, for example, the minimum legal age of marriage is based on that assumption.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:55 pm
I see where you are going with your point Usman, but reliance on weak narrations simply has you making excuses. You don’t need to! The Prophet married Aisha when she was six and consummated it when she was almost ten, according to the authentic hadith.
The kuffar have no issues with their daughters and sisters having sex early, but the thought of marriage sends them into indignant convulsions – they are a people most perverted.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:13 pm
Except of course his companions were around him constantly, had they witnessed any fraudulent activity they would have exposed it – or are you suggesting that everyone was in on it? Remarkably, even his enemies were struck by his message, to the point that they too embraced Islam.
As much as we entertain your delusions of grandeur Thersites, I’m confident you don’t put yourself on a par with the Almighty. It’s a little thing called authority – Allah has it, you clearly don’t except that which is given to you.
In Ireland and other European states it is not considered acceptable to enter into an early marriage contract. Nevertheless, sexual activity is not only condoned but encouraged.
Define consent.
Not at all, western slavery and that practiced by Muslims is like comparing chalk and cheese. Muslims do not degrade slaves, they wear the same clothes, eat the same food and in fact enjoy many rights that minorities in Ireland would be envious of. The western white man’s slavery was vastly different, and well you know it. I mentioned that slavery in the time of the Prophet was essentially done away with, I never said it was outlawed – hence your examples. Any mistreatment of slaves is not the fault of the religion but the responsibility of the individual who either didn’t know what the religion says on the matter or chose to ignore it. That said, why don’t you deal with the preponderance of modern day slavery in Ireland instead of looking to the past – clearly a case of taking the plank out of your own eye, eh?
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:51 pm
please; let us reflect on this, would any of you allow, any of your daughters who were 9 years old, get married at that age. If this is sunnah, can anyone of you show us, any compionion of the Holy Prophet (saw)who did the same? or is there any one today who are doing this, any of you ready to do the same. Because if this is sunnah should we not be also following it?. My belife is that the marriage of Aisha to the Holy Prophet (saw)took place after Hijra and Aisha was about 9-10,so the earliest the Holy Prophet (saw) would have allowed this marriage to be consummated would have been not until she was at a mature age and 14-15 is acceptable.
In Pakistan I have seen many girls Nikah been arranged at 12, but the family would not allow the rukstana until the girl reaches a mature age ie. 14-15. This seems to be the correct and moral thing to do.
The Holy Prophet (saw) the Highest of morals, I dont think he would have allowed any marriage so young. I will try to fine some Hadith, but Mujahid how do we know if the Hadith’s you looked are not weak narrations, this is not an attack just what your answer.
Usman
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:53 pm
Clearly Mujaahid is delusional then again, anyone who believes and follows Islam is delusional.
But this isn’t Mujaahid greatest delusion. It’s believing that Muslims in Ireland could introduce Sharia law and turn Ireland into a backwards Muslim state. It’s laughable.
It’s you Mujaahid that has delusions of an world controlled by Islam. Tell me, how is that going to happen? The Americans and other western nations constantly kick you to the ground, even the Jews in Isreal is kicking your butts. I could walk down any street and insult a Muslim, insult Islam and what does he do every time? He walks away like a little tanned piggy, every time Mujaahid. He may think ’slave’ but tell me Mujaahid, who has the control, and not just in that situation, who has control of his country? It isn’t the stupid Muslims.
(Edited – John: no need to take selective quotes – simply point individuals to the site and let them read for themselves).
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:58 pm
“his companions were around him constantly, had they witnessed any fraudulent activity they would have exposed it – or are you suggesting that everyone was in on it?”
As they all benefitted from it they had good reason to believe or pretend to believe.
“Remarkably, even his enemies were struck by his message, to the point that they too embraced Islam. ”
Except the many who didn’t.
” I’m confident you don’t put yourself on a par with the Almighty. It’s a little thing called authority – Allah has it, you clearly don’t except that which is given to you.”
I’m rather nicer than the almighty, actually. I am quite prepared to give reasons for what I think and to accept that others differ; neither of which the almighty, if it is accurately portayed in the quran, is willing or able to do. Authority which requires blind unquestioning obedience is authority without justification.
So, there is a differnce between muslim slavery in theory and muslim slavery as it actually is- rather like sharia, then. As for the preponderance of modern day slavery in Ireland why don’t you report it to the Gardai? slavery is illegal, you know.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 9:43 pm
You’re just being factious now, are you a Zionist troll paid to spam sites? Go and read up on the early history of Islam and try grasp some understanding of the suffering the early believers endured despite the easy alternative of apostasy and relative reward of riches for doing so (remember the punishment for apostasy was a Medinan dictate, not a Meccan).
Within the Prophets lifetime Arabia was united under Islam, there weren’t many who rejected Islam.
One of the many differences between you and Allah, is that no one really gives a hoot what you think. So whether you give reasons or not, whether you think they are valid or not matters little. No one actually cares.
I’m sure there were injustices, people are after all ‘only human’ – if you can cast the first stone, please do.
Reports have been filed, thank you.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:09 pm
Appeals to the people are NOT valid arguments Usman. The fact is the Prophet did marry Aisha when she was six. Abu Bakr, Aishah’s father, gave her in marriage and NOT ONE of the companions or even Quraish enemies of the Prophet objected – why? Because it was a NORMAL practice. It isn’t a sunnah to marry 9yr olds, it is a sunnah to marry early and at that time and in that place early marriage was acceptably lower than it is now. That said, the conditions of marriage must be present.
Of course in the west this would be deemed minor abuse so your semantic somersaults at the beginning have achieved nothing. You don’t need to make excuses to the kuffar bro.
OK, well at least we’re not fighting Usman – even if you don’t agree with everything that’s said. The hadith I have mentioned are found in Bukhari, Muslim and the Sunan of Abu Dawood.
Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
“Narrated Aisha that the Prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: “I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).”
Muslim, volume 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine…
Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116
“Aisha said, “The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old.” (The narrator Sulaiman said: “Or six years.”). “He had relations with me when I was 9 years old.”
Like you I accept that Muhammad was and is the best example, and if you consider the licentiousness and immorality today, where little kids freely have sex, fall pregnant and then have abortions – many of whom are little older than 12 – one can see the wisdom in early marriages.
That said, the conditions I mentioned earlier must be present – there must be physical readiness (menstruation), mental capacity (consent) and societal acceptance. As Eoin pointed out, social, economic and environmental factors in the past necessitated early marriages, the same cannot be said today, especially in the west.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:19 pm
Mujaahid, you edited my post and pretended I made a reference to a website.
I made a suggestion, one that it seems you fear. I know your buttons and I can push them anytime, and I will push them.
While before I wouldn’t **** on you if you were on fire but from your recent child sex comments, instead of not ****** on you, I’d bring more fuel.
Let the games begin…
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 10:46 pm
No John, it was me who edited your post and I said no need to take selective quotes simply point people to THIS website where they can read for themselves. We have nothing whatsoever to hide, it’s all in the public domain.
الثلاثاء 10 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:51 pm
We know you are trying to hide nothing. Your terror monging sexist anti Irish agenda is plain to see. And of course you can get away with saying anything in this PC hovel that Ireland has now become. I am confident it will not stay this way for much longer however. Hopefully the likes of John Kavanagh will do more than operate a website and instead form a political party to address the Irish people’s concerns that are currently being ignored. Islam belongs in the dark ages.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:12 am
Mujahid thankyou for that, and the Hadith, I will take a look and speak to my Imam about this. but Just one more question on this issue. How old was Aisha when marriage took place? and was the marriage consummated after Hijra? because this would mean that she would have been 6 when married and 9 when the marriage was consummated. I still can’t take this in. Dose not the Holy Quran teach us that there must be consent from both parties? if that is the case how can a six year old have the mind to understand marriage plus a nine year old understanding whats about to happen?
Usman
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:08 am
The countless videos on Islam apologetics on youtube are terrible, including the one posted on this website on this topic trying to justify paedophilia. They are all completely disingenuous.
I have a few questions which I think should make every religious person reconsider their faith. Why does god put people on earth when he knows they are going to go to hell?? It’s his fault in the first place that they’re alive and on their way to hell – he made them do what they do. Why didn’t he just not create them instead? Pray tell Mujaahid
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:15 am
This isn’t going well really. I know that this site obviously doesn’t concern itself with such kuffar concepts as “public relations” but really when your own comments are being deleted due to poor rating on your own website the penny really should drop. There is an old addage in politics Liam “When you’re explaining you’re losing”. I know that this site see’s itself as the one that will say what most Muslims won’t but there is another saying “Better to be silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt”. Oh and I advise you put Eoin on a tighter leash. He sounds like an intemperate loon.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:58 pm
When Public Relations is simply a euphemism for pulling the wool over people’s eyes, then no – we will not lower ourselves to your kuffar ways. I’m pleased you have noted yet another distinction between us and you.
As for ratings, you have this fixation with popularity and the need to be wanted – get a life man.Had you yourself remained silent you would not have demonstrated your foolishness, some introspection might be useful Garland.
As for Eoin, he’s one of many who are tired of having been pushed to the margins of society simply because he is Muslim and this site will afford him and others every opportunity to voice concerns and even anger if need be. That’s what individualism is Garland, the ability to think for and express yourself – you ought to try it some day.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:22 pm
Muslims push themselves to the edge of society. Particularly muslim women with their hijab and their idea that if they don’t wear it they deserve to be raped.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:35 pm
Allah has given you a choice and has set before you Paradise and Hellfire, you determine your own end through your choices in life, that’s free will.
Ross, why would parents have children when they know the ultimate end is death?
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:41 pm
But allah knew before he put us on this earth what would happen to each of us so why didn’t he just put on those who would go to heaven??
They have children because they’re genetically programmed to do so in order that their genes survive. Have you ever read the Selfish Gene by Dawkins?? I recommend it. It’ll teach you alot.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:43 pm
Actually that’s such a bad analogy between parents and allah
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:58 pm
Paradise can be perfectly ours only if we freely choose it Ross and that requires a trial – a free choice if you will. That free will removed us from the original Paradise, but administered wisely it will admit us to a better home.
The genetic programming theory is too simplistic and throws up more issues than it solves. Are we to suppose that those millions who abort children each year have made a conscious decision not to have their genes survive?
I used the parent analogy to highlight the fact that despite the assurance of the death of their offspring, loving parents have children out of love – an expression of their union.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 3:10 pm
Ross – I’ve created a forum topic for this important discussion here: http://mpac.ie/forum/miscellaneous/why-did-allah-create-man-only-to-send-him-to-hell/#p57
Let’s continue there as it is a very important discussion but has little relevance to the topic on this thread.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:23 pm
Well, well, well; it’s amusing to see that you were unable to produce any sort of answer to my last post so removed it.
“Paradise can be perfectly ours only if we freely choose it Ross and that requires a trial”
Except that god fixed the rsults of the “trial” in advance. All the ruuners are nobbled and god has already decided which will win or lose. Apart from that, the rewards or penalties for succeeding or failing in the “trial” are completely out of proportion to the actions that “earn” them, which means there is no justice in them.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 6:48 pm
I asked that question on the forum, it hasn’t been approved yet even though I wrote it over two hours ago
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:36 pm
Ross: what question is awaiting approval? If you register and login your comments will go up automatically in the forum area. I can confirm there is nothing awaiting approval.
Thersites: Your comment was removed because it wasn’t relevant to the discussion here. You are quite free to open up that issue in the forum area, where I’m sure people will answer.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:52 pm
it says post waiting approval by forum administrator
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:16 pm
Ross – your name is not down as having registered. I’ve approved your post but it would be easier if you registered and posted directly.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:25 pm
I’m not prepared to give my real email address I’m afraid – I’d fear the repercussions. You guys aren’t known for being tolerant.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:48 pm
That’s your prerogative Ross, I’ll tell the moderators to keep on eye out so your posts can be approved without too much of a wait.
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:16 pm
Thinking for myself is what I do for a living. I have no choice. It’s expected of me. My point isn’t about popularity it was about intelligence. Is it intelligent to design a site where you must now know how unpopular you are with a mechanism that that disables the posts for being unpopular even for the site owner.
I think Eoin like yourself is a man on the margins because that’s where he want’s to be. When the inside is full of people who remind you of your inadequacies I suppose the margins where you compare yourself to Malcolm X or MLK become a comfort zone
الأربعاء 11 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:44 pm
‘a mechanism that disables posts’ are you being cryptic? There is no such mechanism on this site Garland – that’s one less conspiracy theory for you to concern yourself with.
Let’s deal with another: the wish to be marginalized. This futile argument works on the same basis as your equally ridiculous assertion that people choose to be offended – which of course to you is unidirectional and always pointed at Muslims, everyone else it seems has every right!But like your ‘offense’ defense, this argument lacks one crucial element – evidence.
I’ll grant you that many of the vices you readily call culture place us at odds with the west, but on the issues of agreement – and there are many, I simply cannot understand why anyone would consciously remain aloof, can you? The problem then is the Irish ‘all or nothing’ principle, which requires Muslims to assimilate or be forever exempt from the rights and privileges of full Irish citizenship. You have erected the barriers, you could simply remove them and hold to the Islamic principle of ‘to you, your religion – to me, mine’.
الخميس 12 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:10 am
There is no mechanism which isn’t to say that there wasn’t up until today. But then I’ll take that as been a sign that you will take my good advice when it is recognised as being such. That’s progress.
Anyway second paragraph “choose to be offended”…no I don’t care whether you you are offended or not is what I would say. Not whether you offense is a choice or not. You’re offended. Why should anyone care? There are more important matters at stake.Whoever died from being offended. Get over it it and argue your case. You feeling offended is a matter of no importance to anyone but yourself
Third paragraph no barriers have been erected. you simply have not successfully argued
1. What these barriers are
2. That they have being specifically directed at you (Islamonarcism at work again)
3. What makes you special that you think you should be made an exception to any such prohibitions you object to in the first place.
الخميس 12 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:59 am
Moving on from your delusions of grandeur, on the issue of offense I believe the statute books disagree with you as they clearly consider gratuitous offense as a matter of some importance.
As for your crass ‘Whoever died from being offended’ there are hundreds of families all over Ireland who have lost children to suicide because of bullying – the bullies invariably being individuals who felt the giving offense was ‘a matter of no importance’. Shame on you.
With regard to barriers, on question one simply open your eyes I don’t see any reason why I should do all the work for you.
Concerning who they are directed at, perhaps I must have been mistaken when the hijab issue threatened to exclude Muslim children from educational opportunities. I must also be blind to the multiplicity of visible practicing Muslims working in Ireland, i.e. they haven’t been forced to change their Islamic identities. I must be in error when I see Muslims denigrated and demeaned in the media and the social deprivation must be a figment of my imagination.
Not special, but equal.No exceptions, just equality.
الخميس 12 ذو القعدة 1430 at 2:25 am
puting aside that you and the statute books are on as good a terms There comes a time when a man must put away childish things. Why do you wan’t to be a victim?
الخميس 12 ذو القعدة 1430 at 5:17 am
“Not special, but equal.No exceptions, just equality” and somehow “separation and distinction from the kuffar” as well.
الخميس 12 ذو القعدة 1430 at 7:56 pm
Yeah Mujaahid, Thersites has you wrapped up. You’re full of crap as usual.
الجمعة 19 ذو القعدة 1430 at 8:24 am
If you actually read the article you would see that its speaking to young muslims who dress and want to be like the kaffir, so they end up acting like the kaffir and commiting sins, Im not saying every single muslim but some(most young boys) are falling into this trap. So yes equality from the rest of the world which is not a big thing to ask, or is it? But within ourselves, we should be firm in our belief and follow the prophet and not imitate the kuffar.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 3:40 am
Here’s an idea for every Moslem who wishes so dearly to be able to live in country where their interests, laws, and ideologies are given preference: MOVE BACK TO YOUR ANCESTRAL HOMELAND. Ireland is for the IRISH. Why do expect to be able to live the way you did in your Moslem homelands, in a land that is historically Christian, and most definitely non-semetic. No Irishman should EVER apologise for being white, or Irish, or Catholic or what have you… Fact is, the Irish have lived on the island for thousands of years. Why should we have to ‘tolerate’ your invasion?
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 11:41 am
Maculster – Every individual in MPAC.ie is either a native Irish man/woman or Irish born, how dare you discriminate against them based on religious affiliation.
السبت 04 محرم 1431 at 4:09 am
” O’ Muslim, it is your duty as a citizen of Ireland to work for its best interests, and who could doubt that establishing the authority of Allah in the land is in the best interests of Ireland? … Therefore, your first duty O’Muslim is to Allah and His messenger, and He the Most High has called you to change yourselves”…
NO – Your (Muslims) first duty is to accept Ireland, and it’s laws and society, and integrate. Nothing less.
الأحد 05 محرم 1431 at 3:46 am
The only time muslims consider themselves Irish is when they are collecting benefits.