In the 1400s the Muslim reign in Spain came to an abrupt and bloody end. For over 600yrs Islam had dominated the Spanish landscape, bringing to the west learning and sciences that made Medieval Europe look positively barbaric. Despite the inculcation of a largely egalitarian society based on Islamic mores, Christian kings in the north plotted a reconquest, one that would give rise to one of the darkest moments in European history – the Inquisition.
Today the rich tapestry of Islamic art and architecture of Al Andalusia draws hundreds and thousands of tourists who marvel at the wonders of a bygone era. However, it is also of great interest to Muslims and the area has seen a surge of interest from European Muslims seeking to settle in a former Muslim homeland.
In recent years, schools and communities have been established and Muslim influence is gaining momentum. Recently a request was made to the Catholic Pope to allow Muslims to once again worship in the mosque of Cordoba. We lost this land over 600yrs ago, inshaAllah this new resurgence will see our reclaiming of our former homeland.
The wealthy among us can facilitate this by purchasing land and property in the area, and then making this available to Muslims seeking to reside in Islamic communities. Play your part in restoring our former glory.
For more information on what you do to facilitate this reclamation, contact MPACIE and info@mpac.ie.
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الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 5:59 pm
How dare you make such a claim. You don’t have any land except the caves in Afghanistan and Pakistan and that’s where you should be.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 7:10 pm
Salam Alakium,
It is good to see a resurgent Islam in Al Andalus and inshaAllah it will one day soon take its rightful place as part of an Islamic Caliphate.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 7:20 pm
I nearly wet myself laughing at this drivel…
True, the Spanish government granted an amnesty for a certain proportion of Moroccan immigrants but this will not happen again. I think you should prepare yourselves for the fact that the Spaniards will NEVER allow the Moroccans become the majority in Spain.
The 15th Century brought the Inquisition, the logical outcome of centuries of Muslim rule. Next time the Muslims try to impose their will on the Spaniards, there will be furnaces.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 8:54 pm
“a largely egalitarian society based on Islamic mores”
Except that Moorish Spain wasn’t egalitarian at all. At best, nonmuslims were tolerated as long as they paid extra taxes, made no attempt to govern themselves and accepted being massacred from time to time. Even within the muslim communities there was conflict between those who claimed to be of arab descent, Berbers and native Spanish muslims.
“Recently a request was made to the Catholic Pope to allow Muslims to once again worship in the mosque of Cordoba.”
I take it you favour returning Sophia Haigiya to the Greek Orthodox church as well.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 10:40 pm
That’s disingenuous at best Thersites and well you know it. There was no EXTRA tax as you put it, they hadthe freedom to implement their own judicial laws in matters pertaining to their religion, they could worship freely too. The Sophia Haigiya is a museum.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 10:51 pm
The disingenuity is on your part, Mujaahid.
J9izya, by definition, is a tax paid by nonmuslims to muslims; an extra tax. If it was not an extra tax, why were nonmuslims forbidden to become muslims- avowedly from worries about the effect on the tax revenues- at various times?
“they hadthe freedom to implement their own judicial laws in matters pertaining to their religion, they could worship freely too. ”
They could not govern their own territory and had to accept inferior status to muslims. That’s what anyone- except perhaps muslims- considers inequality.
“The Sophia Haigiya is a museum.”
The Greek Orthodox church- which built it- weren’t asked if they wanted it to be a mosque or a museum.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 11:04 pm
It isn’t and never was an extra tax, it was the tax non-Muslims paid and through which they enjoyed all the amenities and rights of the Muslim populace. This tax was incumbent ONLY upon able-bodied adult males and was paid ONCE a year.
Muslims were equally obliged to pay tax, theirs was called Zakah and was more than that required of non-Muslims.
They could no more govern their own state than Irish Muslims can claim a part of Ireland and demand Muslim governance – stop being ridiculous.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 2:14 am
What is ridiculous about the indigenous inhabitants reclaiming their country from foreign invaders, whether the country be Spain or Ireland? The jizya was specifically and deliberately paid “with humiliation” as proection money from each of the subject peoples. It did not grant any amenities or rights, only toleration.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 5:02 am
It did provide rights and no amount of revisionism can change that. For example the non Muslims where given the right not to have to fight in the army. They where also given the right to adhere to their own religious laws in many cases. Non Muslims where given the right to take alcohol, something Muslims where not allowed to do.
I suggest you read “The history of the Moors in Spain” which is an excellent book on the subject, written by a non Muslim.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 8:01 am
The Cordoba mosque was actually built over the site of a Christian church St. Vincent so the site was originally Christian, not muslim.
Also the Inquisition was responsible for between 4,000 and 5,000 deaths but in a single day in December 1066 the muslims of Granada killed over 4,000 Jews because a Jew Joseph ibn Naghrela had assumed a position of authority over the muslims. Al Hakam was known for the Day of the Ditch where he beheaded 5,000 in Toledo. Al Manzor also beheaded over 4,000 Christians after taking Zamora. The Almoravids and Almohads also banned music and wine and practised Jihad Galore. The imposition of Jizyah was severe and never were Jews and Christians treated as equals under Islamic rule. The Islamic “Golden Age” was a myth!
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 9:37 am
I was fortunate enough to visit “mezquita cordoba” or as we would call it the Masajid of Cordoba.
Asides it’s breathtaking architecture, it’s a crying shame that we are no longer allowed to offer salaat within its confines…in fact there are guards patrolling the area to ensure that people do not offer their salaat.
And there was me thinking the personal escort of a security guard was for my benefit!
Not only that, but the floor of the Masajid is littered with tiles of faces of devils, done after the “reconquista”, as the rulers knew Muslims wouldn’t put their foreheads on the ground where such devilish embellishments lay.
Funny how the best sites in southern spain were all created under Muslim rule.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 9:48 am
“The history of the Moors in Spain”
Do you mean Lane-Poole’s nineteenth century fantasies? You do have old-fashioned tastes in literature. Not even Lane-Poole, however, could find many compliments to make to the taifa states politically or the almohads and almoravids in any way.
” non Muslims where given the right not to have to fight in the army. ”
You’re guilty of revisionism yourself here. It wasn’t a right to fight in the army then. It was a privilege. Unlike the person above, mediaeval muslims had no doubts about the meaning of “jihad”: it consisted of finding unbelievers and struggling with them bashing them with bits of metal until they died or surrendered and then taking over the land god meant for muslims. indeed, is there any supposedly holy book, besides the quran, that discusses how to divide the loot in detail? That’s aside from the fact that subjects who weren’t allowed military training or experience were much less likely to revolt or revolt successfully.
“They where also given the right to adhere to their own religious laws in many cases. Non Muslims where given the right to take alcohol, something Muslims where not allowed to do.”
Rights they’d had before the muslims arrived anyway. You mean muslims were not suppsed to drink alcohol; they’ve found plenty of ways of redefining or ignoring the supposed ban.
Again, it’s an interesting aspect of muslim rule that they tried to rule through religious rather than social divisions; a rather neat way of making it more difficult for national identity to develop and of ensuring that those responsible for getting their subjects to pay taxes were probably pacific. It may have been effective in the short-term, but once national consciousness arose it meant that there were more causes of enmity to muslims- social, religious and national- which may explain something of why their former subjects attacked their former masters so ruthlessly when they had the chance.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 1:29 pm
Boo bloody hoo…you need to stop peddling the myth that Jews were simply innocent victims. They actively sought to overthrow the Caliph by force and were punished accordingly – it’s called treason.
I’m glad the then Caliph prevented a Jewish state, we’ve all seen what they have done since they illegally established one in 1948. The Hittites, Amonites and Gilgamites were slaughtered to bring about the first Jewish state – there is a very poor track record there and in the five thousand years since nothing seems to have changed. Jewish Zionists are brutal, bloodthirsty and manipulative warmongers. May we see their demise in my lifetime – ameen!
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 2:02 pm
Ameen. Allahu Akhbar. Jihad fi sabilillah, jenna insha Allah.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 9:07 pm
Marwan,
You must stop reading history books printed in Saudi Arabia!
Israel was formed out of the British Mandate in 1925, ratified by the League of Nations and in 1948 by the UN. At that time, 78% of the land was given to the arabs for Trans Jordan and only 22% of the original promise to Israel. Israel as ratified by the UN and approved by the majority of nations included Samaria and Judea, Golan Heights and Gaza.
When Egypt, Syria and Jordan started their “illegal” war in 1948/49 and captured the territories, Syria took Golan Heights, Jordan took Samaria and Judea (now called West Bank) and Egypt took Gaza. These illegal land grabs have never been approved by the UN.
A challenge for you Marwan!
Name the UN resolutions that ceded Gaza to Egypt and Samaria and Judea to Jordan and Golan to Syria. Also name the nations that supported the resolutions!
And if the sun doesn’t rise tomorrow, will you blame them Joooos again?
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 10:42 pm
Why would you use UN resolutions as if they were binding – the Jewish Zionists obviously don’t think they are. They built on the sympathy generated by the genocide in Nazi Germany to push for a UN resolution that would give them a state, they got it and have duly ignored every other resolution since. They are a reprehensible illegitimate state and their demise will be sooner than later, inshaAllah.
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 11:48 pm
Marwan,
The muslims also illegally claim Jerusalem as their “Holy” site based on Mohammed’s so called night journey to the fartherest mosque. There was no mosque on the Temple Mount in 620AD. So this claim is false!
Why did God ask Solomon (a Jew) to build a temple on Mt Moriah?
Notice he did not ask a muslim to build a mosque.
How many times does “Jerusalem” appear in the Quran? Answer ZERO.
Also the site of the Dome of the Rock is 100 metres south of Solomon’s temple so it is not built on Holy ground at all.
In fact, the Book of Daniel calls it ‘the Abomination that desolates’.
الخميس 27 شوال 1430 at 1:26 am
” They actively sought to overthrow the Caliph by force and were punished accordingly – it’s called treason.”
Which was why the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising were executed.
An interesting contrast: sixteen dead there are regaded as martyrs and heroes, whereas four thousand killed in Zamora, five thousand in Toledo, about a million Armenians in 1915 supposedly show the benefits of muslim rule and the decency of islam.
الخميس 27 شوال 1430 at 11:32 am
Thersites: only a fool could attribute the Armenian genocide to Islam..oh wait… Of course the benefits of western democracy are evident to all, over a 1.5 million dead in Iraq, hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chechnya, etc, etc – yep this truly shows the benefits of Judeo/Christian rule and the decency of the west. If you want to get into a numbers match, you’ll be found wanting…
Daniel: There’s no exclusive claim to Jerusalem – Muslims have always accepted that it is a special place for all three faiths which is why unfettered access was a possibility in Muslim times. That’s not the case now as Jewish Zionists prevent prayers at times.
Jerusalem is spoken of in the Quran daniel, the night journey makes a reference to masjid Al Aqsa and the early Muslims turned in prayer toward Jerusalem until they were commanded to face Makkah. You need to stop reading JihadWatch stupidness and read objectively.
الخميس 27 شوال 1430 at 5:47 pm
As the Ottoman empire, which doubled up as the caliphate, had been encouraging murder of Armenians for a long time before 1915 they must bear some of the blame.
” 1.5 million dead in Iraq, hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chechnya”
Most of them killed by their fellow-countrymen. I agree it was foolish to give them the opportunity to kill one another.
السبت 14 ذو القعدة 1430 at 4:35 pm
Concerning this “Jizya”, I presume Muslims here would be simply delighted and entirely approving if the authorities here withdrew their obligations to pay the normal taxes everyone else pays and were instead obliged to pay another different tax, say oh, 200% greater? We could call it “the Muslim tax”, any takers?
How about if we institute a sort of “Dhimmi-status” for Muslims here, eh? It’s provisions shall include and not be limited to:
-Muslims prohibited from proselytizing on pain of death. Neither to obstruct the spread of Christianity in any manner.
-Muslims to bury their dead without loud lamentations and loud prayers.
-Pay special taxes for the permission to rebuild or repair Mosques
-Permission required to build new places of worship
-Death penalty for blasphemy of the Christian faith
-When a case pitched a Christian against a Muslim, the word of the Christian witnesses carries more weight than that of Muslims.
-The maximum punishment for the murder of a Muslim, if perpetrated by a Christian, was the payment of blood money; no death penalty was possible.
-Christian can inherit from a Muslim, while a Muslim cannot inherit from a Christian. If a Muslim dies leaving even one Christian heir, all the estate belongs to the Christian heir at the expense of any Muslim heirs.
-Muslims have no right to bear arms of any kind.
-Enslavement of young Muslim boys for the State’s slave army: analogous to the Mamluk or devshirmeh, by annually enslaving young boys from the Christian population of its Balkan provinces, to muster Janissary troops. Forced conversion to Christianity, of course.
-Humiliation of Muslims:: “disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Christians are not allowed to honor the people of the Muslims or elevate them above Christians, for they [Muslims] are miserable, disgraced, and humiliated.”
[T]he collector remains seated and the infidel remains standing…, his head bowed and his back bent. The infidel must place money on the scales, while the collector holds him by his beard and strikes him on both cheeks.(Al-Nawawi)[106]
Muslims must pay the [Muslim-tax]… on offering up the [Muslim-tax], the Muslim must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the Muslim] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… (Al-Ghazali)[107]
Following this [the handing over of the Muslim-tax payment] the emir will strike the Muslim on the neck with his fist; a man will stand near the emir to chase away the Muslim in haste; then a second and a third will come forward to suffer the same treatment as well as all those to follow. All [Christians] will be admitted to enjoy this spectacle. (Ahmad al-Dardi al-Adawi)[108]
On the day of payment they [the Muslims] shall be assembled in a public place … They should be standing there waiting in the lowest and dirtiest place. The acting officials representing the law shall be placed above them and shall adopt a threatening attitude so that it seems to them, as well as to the others, that our object is to degrade them by pretending to take their possessions. They will realize that we are doing them a favor in accepting from them the Muslim-tax and letting them go free. They then shall be dragged one by one for the exacting of payment. When paying, the Muslim will receive a blow and will be thrown aside so that he will think that he has escaped the sword through this. This is the way that the friends of the Lord, of the first and last generations, will act toward their infidel enemies, for might belongs to God, and to the believers. (Muhammad Abd al-Karim al-Maghili)[109]
The Muslims posture during the collection of the Muslim-tax – [lowering themselves] by walking on their hands, reluctantly; on the authority of Ibn ’Abbas (al Tabari).[110]
-Muslims were forbidden to use cars.
-Christians issued regulations requiring Muslims to attach distinctive signs to their houses…ail wooden images of devils to the doors of their homes., ornail onto their doors a board bearing the sign of a monkey.
-Christians reject the possibility that a Muslim man (and generally any non-Christian) may marry a Christian woman.
-A sexual relationship between a Muslim man and a Christian woman, being punishable by death.
-Muslims be excluded from all participation in the political process.
-Enslavement of all Muslim prisoners of war.
-Sex-slavery of female Muslim booty captured…their children be raised Christian and free.
Now, wouldn’t Ireland and indeed Europe be much better for these rules? Any takers??
الأحد 14 ذو القعدة 1430 at 12:08 pm
well number one you are lying, prove to me that these things happened within the lifetime of the prophet and 3 generations after him. And Ireland has a massive catholic population so they are blaspheming so will they be killed?
الأحد 14 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:55 pm
Eochaidh : thank you for the long but tedious cut and paste job.If you’re going to take your information from anti-Muslim sites then of course any kind of understanding is simply impossible. As Eoin correctly states, simply chucking out unverified claims is no substitute for truth – so why not supply verified historical references for your claims. I suspect we will be waiting as most anti-Muslim sites depend on conjecture and a blind hate that requires evidence for their lies and distortions.
But for your info:
1. Jizya was incumbent only upon adult able-bodied males, everyone else was exempt (women, children and elderly, infirm, disabled). In Andalus it was one dirham a year, a paltry sum compared to the zakah Muslims were required to pay. Non-Muslims who were unable to pay were supported by the bait-ul-mal (the FIRST social-welfare system) and could receive (the FIRST free medical scheme in the world) free medical care in its world famous hospitals. For evidence see http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Short-History-Karen-Armstrong/dp/0679640401
2. Muslims don’t bury their dead with loud lamentations or loud prayers. It’s a quiet dignified affair. Until recently there was but ONE Muslim graveyard for all of Ireland’s 58,000 Muslims. Thankfully after successful lobbying MPAC.ie were able to secure another site and will continue to do so, to make sure that Muslims WHEREVER they are in Ireland have an easily accessible site like their non-Muslim counterparts.
3. Muslims already pay special taxes for the few mosques they have been allowed to build here. In a very real sense Muslims are in a dhimmi state.
4. Permission is required to build new mosques, and is rarely granted. There are only THREE purpose built mosques in Ireland, at the moment. Perhaps in the near future we’ll consider using your largely empty churches and renovating them along Islamic lines. That way there’s no need to build, just minor alterations.
5. Muslims do not obstruct the spread of Christianity, secularists do – so like you we believe those individuals need reining in.
6. Muslims are already treated unfairly in the court system, and most other institutions here in Ireland.
7. Muslims can’t inherit from Christians or other non-Muslims
8. Muslims it seems cannot bear arms in Ireland, they cannot join the police force or the army without rescinding their faith.
9. Muslims all over the world have been forced to convert or starve to death – the great magnanimity of Christian charities.
10. Muslims are disgraced already in Europe, they cannot dress the way they want, worship the way they want or live the way they want. Here’s what one of your Christian heroes said:
“They have to know that there are 20,000 armed Serbs around Sarajevo … it will be a black cauldron where 300,000 Muslims will die, They will disappear. That people will disappear from the face of the earth.”
“No Muslim foundations shall ever be laid in Serb areas and Serbian villages, All foundations that are laid will be blown up. You must not sell land to the Muslims … this is a fight to the finish. It is a battle for living space.”
“I think it is clear to the army and clear to everyone. It will be a real bloodbath.”
11. “Christians issued regulations requiring Muslims to attach distinctive signs to their houses…ail wooden images of devils to the doors of their homes., or nail onto their doors a board bearing the sign of a monkey”. They did this – and Muslims and Jews who refused were burned at the stake
12. -Christians reject the possibility that a Muslim man (and generally any non-Christian) may marry a Christian woman. Again an historical fact and a reality in present day Ireland. Most Christian women who have married Muslim men have suffered at the hands of their families.
13. -A sexual relationship between a Muslim man and a Christian woman, being punishable by death. Very much a reality in present day Europe.
14. -Muslims be excluded from all participation in the political process. Any Muslims in the Dail? Local councils? Very much a reality in present day Ireland.
Ireland already has those rules, but isn’t better for them. When Shariah comes and removes this enslavement then the Irish will know what true freedom is. Tiocfaidh ar la!
الثلاثاء 15 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:39 am
Liam Egan:
I simply took Islamic laws and replaced the word “Muslim” with “Christian” and vice versa! Offensive, isn’t it?
>But for your info:
1. Jizya was incumbent only upon adult able-bodied males, everyone else was exempt (women, children and elderly, infirm, disabled). In Andalus it was one dirham a year, a paltry sum compared to the zakah Muslims were required to pay. Non-Muslims who were unable to pay were supported by the bait-ul-mal (the FIRST social-welfare system) and could receive (the FIRST free medical scheme in the world) free medical care in its world famous hospitals. For evidence see http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Short-History-Karen-Armstrong/dp/06796404012. Muslims don’t bury their dead with loud lamentations or loud prayers. It’s a quiet dignified affair. Until recently there was but ONE Muslim graveyard for all of Ireland’s 58,000 Muslims. Thankfully after successful lobbying MPAC.ie were able to secure another site and will continue to do so, to make sure that Muslims WHEREVER they are in Ireland have an easily accessible site like their non-Muslim counterparts.3. Muslims already pay special taxes for the few mosques they have been allowed to build here. In a very real sense Muslims are in a dhimmi state.4. Permission is required to build new mosques, and is rarely granted. There are only THREE purpose built mosques in Ireland, at the moment. Perhaps in the near future we’ll consider using your largely empty churches and renovating them along Islamic lines. That way there’s no need to build, just minor alterations.5. Muslims do not obstruct the spread of Christianity, secularists do – so like you we believe those individuals need reining in.6. Muslims are already treated unfairly in the court system, and most other institutions here in Ireland.7. Muslims can’t inherit from Christians or other non-Muslims8. Muslims it seems cannot bear arms in Ireland, they cannot join the police force or the army without rescinding their faith.9. Muslims all over the world have been forced to convert or starve to death – the great magnanimity of Christian charities.10. Muslims are disgraced already in Europe, they cannot dress the way they want, worship the way they want or live the way they want. Here’s what one of your Christian heroes said:
“They have to know that there are 20,000 armed Serbs around Sarajevo … it will be a black cauldron where 300,000 Muslims will die, They will disappear. That people will disappear from the face of the earth.”
“No Muslim foundations shall ever be laid in Serb areas and Serbian villages, All foundations that are laid will be blown up. You must not sell land to the Muslims … this is a fight to the finish. It is a battle for living space.”
“I think it is clear to the army and clear to everyone. It will be a real bloodbath.”11. “Christians issued regulations requiring Muslims to attach distinctive signs to their houses…ail wooden images of devils to the doors of their homes., or nail onto their doors a board bearing the sign of a monkey”. They did this – and Muslims and Jews who refused were burned at the stake12. -Christians reject the possibility that a Muslim man (and generally any non-Christian) may marry a Christian woman. Again an historical fact and a reality in present day Ireland. Most Christian women who have married Muslim men have suffered at the hands of their families.13. -A sexual relationship between a Muslim man and a Christian woman, being punishable by death. Very much a reality in present day Europe.14. -Muslims be excluded from all participation in the political process. Any Muslims in the Dail? Local councils? Very much a reality in present day Ireland.Palestinians are the sole foreign group that cannot benefit from a 2004 law passed by Saudi Arabia’s Council of Ministers, which entitles expatriates of all nationalities who have resided in the kingdom for ten years to apply for citizenship with priority being given to holders of degrees in various scientific fields. The Articles 12.4 and 14.1 of the Executive Regulation of Saudi Citizenship System can be interpreted as requiring applicants to be Muslim.<
The utter hypocrisy of the Muslims is completely laid bear. Now. stop your whinging.
الأربعاء 16 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:22 pm
This is the most Zionist piece of Moslem writing I have ever seen. It proposes exactly what the Zionists did to reclaim Israel!
I have been the inside Cordoba’s Mezquita/cathedral/mosque and in the SW corner of the main hall is an excavation of the original Vandal church that was razed to build the Mezquita. Those who live in glasshouses….
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 12:18 pm
no hay moros en la costa: muslims lost the war and then the land, vae victis. the italians have the older rights, after all the romans ruled andalusia before the moors. and what about the vandals from whom the name andalusia is derived.
the authors of this site have a tendency to get fact horribly wrong and draw awful conclusions from it. what happened to the learned muslim scholar? averroes (ibn rushd) would probably be disappointed.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 2:06 pm
As Allah created all things and as He and He alone has bestowed the right upon Muslims to inherit, then tenure makes little difference. The earth and everything in it is under the dominion of Allah.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 2:53 pm
using the idea of a deity (the existence of which is rather unproven) as a justification for a claim does not improve the chances of the claim to be taken seriously.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 6:12 pm
If enough Muslims take hold of the claim, then whether it’s taken seriously or not by objectors is irrelevant – Islam is not democracy.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 7:19 pm
Mujaahid, so Allah created everything did he? Even my Playstation 3 ? No, Allah did? He play video games? You fool !
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 7:25 pm
Ha, the Spanish will NEVER allow islam to take hold there
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 7:41 pm
It’s not down to the Spanish
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 7:43 pm
Muslims may claim what they like. As the only argument ones like Mujaahid recognise is force then finally we may have to solve the problem by killing them.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 8:20 pm
It is Khalid. You’re forgetting there’s no such thing as allah.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 9:46 pm
And your evidence for that statement Ross? Oh wait, you’re an evolutionist – evidence is not your forte, is it?
Bleather – it’s win/win for the Muslim. If we die, we go to Paradise, if we live we continue the fight. Our dead enjoy bliss, yours only have torment to look forward to.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 11:14 pm
Clearly it’s on you to provide the evidence for it and your claims that your dead are in paradise. Tell me of one piece of evidence that your dead are in enjoy bliss. Whatever about the bullshit that ‘the beauty of the world is evidence for god’ there is NO evidence that your dead are in paradise.
Evolutionist is a misnomer. It’s not as if there’s a different acceptable stance you can take on the matter. Please please please stop this Mujaahid. At least accept that evidence is there for evolution but admit that you decide to flatly reject it purely because of what is written in the koran – that is why you reject it and everyone knows so don’t bother saying it’s not.
الجمعة 03 محرم 1431 at 12:18 pm
“Bleather – it’s win/win for the Muslim. If we die, we go to Paradise, if we live we continue the fight. Our dead enjoy bliss, yours only have torment to look forward to. ”
No, Mujaahid, given that you worship a …………………., in the very unlikely event that it exists it will be just as likely to torture its worshippers as everyone else.
السبت 04 محرم 1431 at 10:39 am
I said that what Mujaahid worships is a ……. and a …….. and I stand by what I said. The god of the quran is a …… because it says it will torture most of the human race for ever for alleged sins and reward a select few with unimaginable bliss. It also claims to be just and both of these- infinite reward and infinite punishment as a consequence of the finite good and bad that humans can do- are manifestly unjust. Therefore the claim to be just is a lie. We are also told that the god of the quran made the human race knowing and intending what they would do and will punish or reward them for doing what it intended them to do. Those are the actions of a psychopath.
There is no reason to believe the promises of such a being.
السبت 04 محرم 1431 at 12:12 pm
This ………. might have been more impressive if they had have had revelations that gave the schematics of an Iphone or even a baramoter. The problem is that these revelations never seem to reveal anything beyond what was a) already known or b) what he was given permission to sh*g or kill next. It appears to have a certain appeal to a simple minded demographic who perhaps like short phrases and slogans