‘Women can wear what they want, they only dress like prostitutes because that’s how everyone dresses’. My 16 year old brother.
Islam is seen in the west as a big demon which wants to kill everything that moves and oppresses women. Let’s take a look at the latter for the time being. Let’s look at the facts, Islam was the first religion to give equal rights to men and women, women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700, if you ask are Irish women oppressed? You will be laughed at, but yet they only got the right to vote in 1922, 1200 years after the women of Islam.
All you need do is look at the society in which we live and look to the youth, watch the films that young people watch, listen to the music they listen to and listen to the youth of Ireland as they talk on the bus or in the street and you get a very, very sad and hurtful picture. Women in this society are abused, used, neglected and treated like animals and the worst thing is, they believe they are free! They actually, genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with it, because they don’t have to cover their hair? This is the sad truth.
Women aren’t protected in this society. I feel if someone had the mentality that is portrayed by the Irish youth well then I feel women are very unsafe. What is the cause of this? Well women are supposedly ‘free’ in this society so what does that mean? It means the old sayings of ‘I don’t NEED a man to take care of me’! Now that’s all well and good, you may not need a man to take care of you, but would it not be nice? Instead of constantly trying to be better looking than all the other girls in the club, have the nicest hair, have the best make-up and least amount of clothes without catching pneumonia or instead of trying to impress a different bloke every weekend is it not nicer to have that special someone. Someone who will always think you’re the best looking girl, that you have the best hair, and that really doesn’t want you wearing as little clothes as possible because its not nice for you to be so cold. Is that not better?
The women in the Irish society will say they are free and have no restrictions on them that force them to do anything they don’t want to, but yet (we’ll take the debs for example) debs after debs, weekend after weekend, girls are literally forced (not physically of course) to pay stupid amounts of money for their hair and make-up and dresses. I asked a group of girls ‘why do you do this?’ the answer I received was ‘you just have to’. Is this not oppression? Is this not what everyone says Islam is? They honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with the way they are made pay extortionate prices for one day.
Ok, ok you may say ‘that’s the debs.Thats a once-off kind of thing’ and in the beginning I did agree with you, but it happens every day. In the media, on both the television and the silver screens we see these skinny women, wearing what seems as little clothes as possible being used like toys and the women of Ireland gladly entertain this ideology. Mimicking it in almost every way! It makes me very sad. Number one because it means I have to look away from the screen every 30 seconds and I miss half the film! And number two because they see this and say ‘I’m an independent woman, I can sleep with however I want’ and the young stupid men around her say ‘excellent, sleep with her and never see her again’! Welcome to equality and the ‘civilised’ west.
My next point I want to raise is the hypocrisy of this situation, which the Irish society and the west itself has created. If a woman sleeps with a different man every weekend she’s deemed, in this society ‘an independent woman and a free woman’, which is entertained by both men and women, but yet if she was to ask for money she’s deemed ‘a prostitute and a whore’. But in this society is the second woman not the more intelligent? Is she not the one who is actually gaining something from the society, and the levels of morality that the society has built?
Now lets look at the Islamic alternative and put these situations in an Islamic perspective. If a Muslim sister was going to her debs, shed number one save a lot of money because she wouldn’t have to get her hair done, now would she? This may seem a little thing but look, Muslim sisters are obviously less oppressed because when all the Irish sisters are feeling pressured to have the nicest hair and to constantly have a new hair-do, the Muslim sisters just throw a scarf on it! Now you know theres at least one sister out there going: ‘You tell ‘em!’. Now take the situation of the woman who sleeps with a different man every weekend. In islam this wouldn’t happen, number one because its not allowed, but also because there is no marriage in the west. Islam stresses marriage. Because if that woman had a husband she wouldn’t need to sleep with a different man every weekend and the second woman wouldn’t have to ask for money because she would have a husband to provide for her! They would both be safer because they wouldn’t be putting themselves in the situation of going out every weekend and being put at the risk of being abused.
To finish off I would just like to ask you to ask yourself one question… if a man is starting a relationship with a woman or is getting to know a woman and she has half a skirt and a low cut top on(which is common place) what is he going to be thinking? And if he cant even see her hair because he hasn’t got the right to, is he going to be thinking the same thing?
Bro. Eoin
Women as chattel
Related posts:
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 5:23 pm
"women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700,"
Really? When did they lose it?
"To finish off I would just like to ask you to ask yourself one question… if a man is starting a relationship with a woman or is getting to know a woman and she has half a skirt and a low cut top on(which is common place) what is he going to be thinking? And if he cant even see her hair because he hasn’t got the right to, is he going to be thinking the same thing?"
Actually, that.s two questions. If you can't count that far, it casts a certain doubt on your ability to think and reason.
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 7:57 pm
Well they lost the right around about the time your ancestors came to the Muslim lands raped, pillaged and colonized the lands, so if anything you should apologize!
Secondly, what age are you? honestly, if you want to argue about what’s meant literally and what’s meant metaphorically, well then I would argue about YOUR ability to read, think and reason.
And finally I want to ask you a few questions, if you are able to argue your points why do you not even use your real name? If you feel you are eligible for a real debate and yet you ask questions like that? Do yourself and others a favour, get a life and grow up.
Salam alaikum
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 8:47 pm
Liam, Eoin is not your real name either.
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 9:39 pm
Please enlighten me as to what my name is then? My full name is Eoin Patrick John Whelan, my Fathers name was John Whelan and my Mothers name was Nuala Whelan (nee Mulligan)
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 9:40 pm
I am not Liam.
الخميس 20 شوال 1430 at 9:43 pm
You’ll get used to this Eoin, it seems anyone who dares speak of Islam must first be denigrated and then demeaned and then called Liam.
الجمعة 21 شوال 1430 at 7:31 am
How do you know who my ancestors are and what they did or did not do if you don’t know my name, Eion Whelan? What is the evidence that Eoin Whelan is your name? what difference does it make to your arguments whether it is or not? Presumably “women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700″ is meant metaphorically then, as there’s no record of universal suffrage in Arabia at that time. Or do you just mean some women? If so, who were they?
“if you want to argue about what’s meant literally and what’s meant metaphorically, well then I would argue about YOUR ability to read, think and reason.” But not my ability to count. How is saying “To finish off I would just like to ask you to ask yourself one question?” and then asking two questions metaphorical? As there is considerable discussion anout which bits of the quran and hadith are meant literally and which metaphorically it is as well to know what the two words mean and to use metaphors carefully.
الجمعة 21 شوال 1430 at 12:10 pm
I can take being denegrated, and labeled a terrorist, even being insulted, but being called Liam. Thats sick just kiddin.
Maybe you can then explain to me Liam how people actually are so ignorant and childish. Like this guy above me here, is it because he knows im right and therefore refuses to admit it, which makes him stubborn AND ignorant, or just plain stupid? it baffles me.
Im not judging im merely trying to understand.
Salams
الجمعة 21 شوال 1430 at 2:31 pm
The article above is stereotyping Irish women, I know Muslims don’t like to be stereotyped (and rightly so), I don’t think it’s fair to stereotype the Irish either.
I personally wouldn’t have a intimate relationship with a woman who ’sleeps with a different man every weekend’ but I believe they have the right to if they want to, the same with men.
Regarding the debs, yes women are expected to look a certain way, but so do the men. Example, if I go for an interview wearing jeans and a Top Gear’s “I’m the Stig” t-shirt, do you really think I’ll get the job, unlikely.
The point is, western society ‘tries’ to make both men and woman as equals, there’s nothing wrong with that. With freedom, people do take the wrong paths but this article seems to suggest that all women do.
If a woman is what you call, half nude, so what? What’s wrong with that? I hear a lot about some Muslims suggesting that if a woman is showing too much of her body that the Muslim man can’t help himself and it be her fault if she got raped. I’ve read it a few times, I even seen a video clip from a Muslim that suggested it, I never heard it from an Muslim face to face. I hope that statement isn’t true, if it is – it would reflect bad on the Muslims and Islam itself. And if it is true, maybe it’s from a small minority of misguided people?
I think Muslim women are oppressed, wouldn’t it be better to let women have their freedom and when you want a wife, you know that the woman you marrying choose to be a certain way instead of being forced into her actions.
John
الجمعة 21 شوال 1430 at 3:01 pm
Not my ancestors thank you very much… I’m Irish not British
الجمعة 21 شوال 1430 at 4:34 pm
If you are right, Eoin Whelan, no doubt you can show that “women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700?
السبت 22 شوال 1430 at 9:24 am
Salam All,
@ John,
bro you dont realise the point of the article. If you were to analyse the statistics of just Dublin, the ground under your feet would shake . Let me give you some statistics of Ireland first . By the end of 2007 The Rape crisis centre Ireland Published a report that shocked the Irish society. The report claimed that atleast one woman is raped every day in Ireland. now for a more recent report from the just Dublin rape crisis center would give you an idea of what are the effects of such a standard set for the society. I will give you the link to make it easy for you
The figures for outside Ireland in larger societies are unimaginable. The figures in Canada for example reveal that every 5 to 6 min a woman is raped!!! The figures for USA would be more grusome. 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes ech month and 683,280 rapes each year.
Further if you accuse Muslims of their attitude towards woman who dress scantly, listen to this -One in three people believe that a woman who has been raped is either partly or fully to blame if she was wearing revealing clothes, a new survey has found. And the people surveyed are Irish people !!! now would you think that is a small minority misguided people ( that would constitute of atleast 1/3 of the Irish public view). you can find these stats on the Irsih health website.
Finally your analogy of men goin for interviews is a bit weak as they dont have to do that every weekend.
The assumption that Muslim woman are oppressed among the west is just baseless. It is an outcome of constant bombardment that you get by watching the news channels day in and day out. If you ask them on what basis are you claiming that they have no substantial ground exept for I hear it on tele. Im not denying the fact that there are some cassess here and there but these people take one or two casses and blow it out of proportions to make it spicy and gain attention. however if you compare the casses that the muslim societies have with that in the western ones , the casses in muslim societies would be less than negligible.
I would encourage you to ask a practicing Muslim woman if she is being oppressed rather than asking the tele.
And Allah knows best
Owais
الاثنين 24 شوال 1430 at 3:32 pm
You see this is a good argument and its educational. thank you so much John for bringing some maturity to the comments. the parts about rape and the statistics mentioned by my brother Owais there does kind of finish the argument, firstly John if you look at what is expected of people in this society you will se that they are not equal and things are expected of women that are not expected of men. The job interview thing is a bit irrelevant as it doesnt happen often and everyone is expected to look their best and presentable. But if you go to town on friday night and see the difference in dress codes for men and women, every man will be in trousers or jeans with a shirt or top on or something nice, but then the women will be in short skirts and low-cut tops with as much skin showing as possible. Do you think thats fair? do you think thats equal? I dont feel so. Men in this society dress to look smart but women in this society dress to please men, thats oppression. You said also that you wouldnt be in an intimate relationship with a woman who sleeps with a different man every weekend, but there are a lot of men my friend who would sleep with her, literally being taken advantage of, because that makes her a ‘free’ woman. but also if you meet a woman at a bar or a club or whatever have a bit too much to drink and go home with her, she may not sleep with a different man every weekend but if she has slept with another man, how many women has that man slept with?
You said that muslim women are oppressed and you believe, from what ive read, that they are forced into it, am I right?
Well John I would like to ask you have you ever asked a practising Muslim sister if she feels she is oppressed? Or have you ever asked her if she is forced into it by anyone? Because if you do they will say no they do it for themselves. Take my wife for example, if she was to take her scarf off tomorow and not wear it anymore, if I tried to make her or force her she would divorce me so fast my head would spin. In Islam you cant force your wife or your daughter to wear her scarf just as it says in the Quran surah al baqarah verse 152 ‘there is no compulsion in religion’.
Slan
الاثنين 24 شوال 1430 at 8:07 pm
If you are right, Eoin Whelan, no doubt you can show that “women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700″?
Still waiting.
الثلاثاء 25 شوال 1430 at 9:23 pm
Hi Owais and Eoin,
Regarding Owais comment “Further if you accuse Muslims of their attitude towards woman who dress scantly, listen to this -One in three people believe that a woman who has been raped is either partly or fully to blame if she was wearing revealing clothes, a new survey has found. And the people surveyed are Irish people !!! now would you think that is a small minority misguided people ( that would constitute of at least 1/3 of the Irish public view). You can find these stats on the Irish health website.”
My reply: I don’t agree with those 1 in 3 Irish people, but I can see their thinking, i.e. “A woman is partly to blame because she making herself a target etc”, those who said that woman are fully to blame are probably rapists themselves! (Or want to be rapists). But in that survey the question was asked are woman to be blamed (I believe women should never be blamed for being raped even if they were 100% nude and doing speed yoga on the streets!), that is very different than suggesting that a man has the right to rape the half nude woman, that he shouldn’t be punished. That is what I’m referring to what some Muslims said (I’ll make my comments clearer the next time).
Your comments regarding the number of people raped each day is shocking but if we all turn Muslim there still be rapes, Islam doesn’t stop rape. There will always be bad people in every religion.
Owais comment “Finally your analogy of men going for interviews is a bit weak as they don’t have to do that every weekend.” My answer is, women don’t ‘have to’ either. They don’t have to go out half naked. Most women that do go out at weekends don’t go out half naked, but I got the feeling your idea of half naked and mine are somewhat different.
Owais your comment regarding “The assumption that Muslim woman are oppressed among the west……”, read my replies to Eoin.
Owais comment “And Allah knows best”, my answer is: No, I don’t believe so
Eoin’s comment: “You see this is a good argument and its educational. thank you so much John for bringing some maturity to the comments” – My reply is: You’re welcome.
Eoin’s comment:” the parts about rape and the statistics mentioned by my brother Owais there does kind of finish the argument”, my reply is: No, (see above)
Eoin’s comment: “But if you go to town on friday night and see the difference in dress codes for men and women, every man will be in trousers or jeans with a shirt or top on or something nice, but then the women will be in short skirts and low-cut tops with as much skin showing as possible. Do you think thats fair?”
My reply is: Both men and woman are influenced by society to dress a certain way, yes, but it’s still the woman’s choice. Woman can still go out at the weekend and will be allowed into a club even if she’s covering up a lot of herself. However I do know it may not be the fashion of the moment.
You’re getting away from my point……. Women should be allowed to make their decision on what they wear and how they wear it, just as the same with men. Of course you will be less or more liked, or treated different with what you wear , that’s life – but you won’t be punished or forced into wearing a certain dress code like in many Islamic countries.
What would happen if a woman walks down a street in many Islamic countries wearing nothing but a bikini. Now compare that to Ireland, she would certainly get many looks and people would think ‘that’s weird’ as it isn’t on a beech, it’s out of the ordinary etc, but she wouldn’t be punished as under Sharia / Islamic law.
I’m not religious but I do like and agree what Pope John Paul II once said, quote: “The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendour and its beauty… Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness… Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person…The human body is not in itself shameful… Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person.”
Regarding Eoin’s comment “Well John I would like to ask you have you ever asked a practising Muslim sister if she feels she is oppressed? Or have you ever asked her if she is forced into it by anyone? Because if you do they will say no they do it for themselves.” My reply is: I know must Muslim women will say they weren’t forced into it but nevertheless they would be punished if they didn’t cover, therefore are oppressed. That’s the point I’m making. I can quote many stats and figures to show that Muslim women are indeed oppressed.
Don’t get me wrong, we are all oppressed in one form or another, there is no such thing as a completely free society, but western culture is far less oppressive than Islamic culture.
John
الأربعاء 26 شوال 1430 at 4:11 pm
‘I know must Muslim women will say they weren’t forced into it but nevertheless they would be punished if they didn’t cover, therefore are oppressed. That’s the point I’m making. I can quote many stats and figures to show that Muslim women are indeed oppressed.’
Bt in this society nobody can punish her and in most of the ’supposedly’ muslim countries a woman can wear a bikini in the street, I am only home from morocco and I can tell you that from first hand experience. so has a muslim woman ever told you here in ireland that she is forced into it? I highly doubt it ok and regarding your last comment an Islamic society is less oppressive. Here in the west society assumes that everyone will mix men and women, therefore is oppressive to muslims and modest people, whereas a muslim society understands the needs of not free-mixing men and women and so creates facilities for men and women, seperate facilities, therefore is less oppressive.
الخميس 27 شوال 1430 at 2:54 am
Mohammed said women are deficient.
Mohammed said hell will be full of women.
A woman is worth only half a man in legal issues.
A woman can be beaten by their husbands Q4.34
A man can marry 4 women Q4.3 (a woman cant have 4 husbands)
A man can divorce easily – not true for a woman.
A man can marry a prepubescent woman.
Women, slaves and camels are the same – Sunaan Abu Dawud 11.2155
Women, houses and horses are evil omens Bukhari 7.62.30-32
Women are your prisoners – if necessary beat them Tirmidhi 104
etc, etc. Women are NOT EQUAL in Islam
الجمعة 28 شوال 1430 at 2:38 am
You obviously dont know 2 things, 1 is Islam and 2 is women!!
the Quran says that you should ‘rejoice at the birth of a child, male or female’. the Bible however says the birth of a daughter ‘is a loss’.
الجمعة 28 شوال 1430 at 6:39 pm
Hi John,
If you analyse your arguments you have no grounds for your answers. And regarding your support for pope’s philosophy – This is what is the problem instead of providing solutions to problem you guys shoot of into a philosophical tangent instead of axknowleding that ISLAM has got practical solutions for those problems. The pope’s philosophy of shame and nudity might sound good to you on books but in reality putting things into practice it is like worlds apart from reality. When the Church was still discussing whether women have souls in the early 20th century, Muslim women had already enjoyed nearly 1400 years of liberation.
the Muslim women now again “YOU” think are oppressed and the irony of your statement is that you acknowledge that when asking a muslim women she would say she is not!!! Now who would punish a muslim woman in Ireland walking down not dressed properly. Infact you will find many muslim women covered properly in Ireland who are still not married.( a point to highlight that they are not forced or pressurised by their husbands as you presume). I’ll leave you with one more statistic in Europe that is – for every man that accepts ISLAM as his way of life there are 4 women that are accepting ISLAM. Now if you thought that the women are oppressed in ISLAM why would so many women voluntarily choose to become muslim every year, and these women are European and have been brought up the way you want them to be.
ATTN ADMIN
I would request the administrator to PLZ not allow comments like the one above ( by daniel) as they are made with a sole intention of fasad. The points and qoutes that daniel has hold no truth watsoever. They are all out of context and manipulated to appear the way he wants to present . the message reveals his intentions. He probably wants to be the next Geek Wilders ( whatever his name was I dont even remember the guys name ). PPL like these are not here to discuss and have a dialog!!!
الجمعة 28 شوال 1430 at 7:16 pm
“Here in the west society assumes that everyone will mix men and women, therefore is oppressive to muslims and modest people”
You’ve taken up the wrong religion: complaining that muslims are oppressed because they aren’t allowed to force other people to behave the way muslims want would be called chutzpah by a jew- or is it really an islamic term given to one of the early prophets and “corrupted” by the jews?
No doubt you can show that “women were given the right to vote in Arabia around the year 700?.
Still waiting.
السبت 29 شوال 1430 at 8:59 am
Daniel, I dont have time to reply to everything you said now but hopefully will address it later. However I have a single question. As you judge the fact that Islam allows men to have 4 wives and women to only have one husband as evidence that women are seen as inferior in Islam, would you then by fair and make the same judgement on Christianity based on the fact that many of the Prophets had multiple wives as shown in the Bible? They also had concubines? What does this say about your religion, especially given that according to your book Jesus never overruled this.
السبت 29 شوال 1430 at 7:40 pm
Owais, there’s nothing wrong with what Danial said above. Another example of Muslims against free speech.
Regarding “axknowleding that ISLAM has got practical solutions for those problems”…… lets try to keep serious here, we both know that Islam is not practical and it’s idea of offering practical solutions is laughable.
Muslims who think Muslim woman share the same freedoms as men, and are not oppressed – are delusional. Then again, when ones checks up the meaning of ‘Islam’ in a dictionary it should say… “see Islam”.
الجمعة 06 ذو القعدة 1430 at 4:34 pm
There’s no point in having a discussion about women’s rights in islam. The people who argue for islam tell half truths and lie. Rape is common place in islamic countries, not forgetting of course that marital rape is sanctioned in islam – I’m not just talking about marital rape though. As for the headscarf, we all know a woman who came out in public and said she was forced to wear the headscarf and oppressed would get the **** beaten out of her.
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:10 am
How is marital rape sanctioned in Islam, because if you are talking about that Shia scumbag then I will personally slap the face off you for associating me or any other ACTUAL muslim with him.
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:12 am
And about the scarf, cop on you fool. You should meet my wife, I would have to beat her to make her NOT wear it, you tool. cop on and get a life.
You are not allowed make any woman wear her scarf, if she doesnt want to thats between her and Allah(SWT)
الخميس 18 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:36 am
Eoin, Eoin, Eoin, why so agressive, you acting like a Muslim… oh wait a second… you are.
(Edit: John, while we are aware kuffar men have little honour for themselves and none for their women folk – you should know that this is not the case for Muslims men. We do not ask questions about another man’s wife. At the very least try and educate yourself concerning different cultures.)
الأربعاء 24 ذو القعدة 1430 at 11:35 pm
Please john try to be common sensical as you have little respect for women and the mentality that you have the right to see any womans figure you want, doesnt mean you have to spread it, kind of like your islamophobic mentality.
الخميس 25 ذو القعدة 1430 at 1:19 am
Whelan, you are so sensitive. I repect women more than any muslim.
You’re a bit of a crazy one, aren’t you?
John
الجمعة 03 ذو الحجة 1430 at 5:25 pm
No John I think you have very little respect for women as Im pretty sure you would have no objections to a man, topless and wearing speedos in a room with your wife, or daughter, or sister would you?
الجمعة 03 ذو الحجة 1430 at 7:44 pm
Well it all depends on the situation of course. My wife on a beech with men walking by wearing speedos – that I wouldn’t have no objection with.
It’s funny, I think you have little respect for women and you think I do, meanwhile we both feel we respect our wife’s completely. It’s a strange world.
السبت 04 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:14 pm
yes it is. so your ok with men walking around you wife basically naked, but once its ‘in context’ ye? that is retarded. Would your wife say the same thing? because I doubt your wife is actually ever happy with young girls wearing basically nothing in front of you no matter what the context, is that right?
السبت 04 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:13 pm
Hi Whelan,
You don’t understand trust, do you? A half naked man in close proximity is fine with me provided that he’s there for a reason, i.e. don’t have malicious reasons.
The same goes for me with half naked women, I really do feel bad for you, not having truth. You disrespect your wife.
Tell me, what if your wife was a nurse and she sees naked men many times a week, how would you feel about that?
And if nakedness is such a bad thing why did Mr. Allah decided we should be born naked?
Answer that Whelan…
John
السبت 04 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:16 pm
i am his wife. I have absolutely NO objection to young girls wearing basically nothing in front of him because our relationship is built from a SOLID foundation of TRUST, honest absolute 100% trust. A naked woman can be pouncing around right in-front of him and i still trust him. Even if i was not in the room while this was going on or anywhere near the place it was going on. This is called trust. I’m saying that whatever the reason for the situation, i have full 100% faith and trust in him that he will tell me everything. Now speaking as a woman…..I believe in life we should not fear our body or fear anyone looking at our body or touching our body. we come to earth naked and we should never be ashamed of our bodies. As for men looking at the bodies of women…..well my friend women do the same thing, look at the bodies of me. Why can’t we just enjoy each other? why can’t we admire someone’s physical appearance. I get looked at by a man, i feel alive and flattered. A woman looks at my husband, i’m proud! We are only human beings, if the unknown is held from us (as in opposite sex’s naked bodies) we will we become curious. that is human nature, curiosity. why can’t we just follow our own human nature?
السبت 04 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:49 pm
the person in this article wrote…..Women aren’t protected in this society. I would like to know….1) what do women need to be protected from? 2) why don’t men ALSO need to be protected from what ever woman need to be protected from in society 3)why does this article focus on women as if we are so weak that we even NEED protection? 4) why can’t women protect themselves in danger? 5) why don’t men need protecting???
those are my questions if anyone can please answer them without involving religion. Please someone answer these questions with NO RELIGIOUS stuff. Personally i studied most every religion in the world. Not just looking at books but also surrounding myself and plunging into the religion. I’m very, very knowledged in religions of the world. After those years of searching and study passed i was very unhappy because after years i still wasn’t able to fill the religious part of my soul. I now have my own personal beliefs in life that are based on what my heart knows. I do NOT like putting down any religion. I believe that everyone has the right to believe and follow and do as they want to do in life. Debates with religion usually end as they began. No one changed their mind in either party of the discussion because we follow what’s in our heart. so having these answered through a religious point of view will not truly answer my questions. I deeply admire people who follow their heart in anything including religion. What i do not like is if someone tells me that i have to believe in something that doesn’t match what i know in my heart. I do not want to debate on religion. i just want these questions answered with no religious base to the answers.
الأحد 05 ذو الحجة 1430 at 2:06 pm
This discussion is a prime example of Muslim obfuscation and even downright lying. Eoin the assertion that Islam gave women the vote in 700 is total rubbish and you quickly go downhill from that breathtaking factoid.
A few facts Eoin. In the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a country that is laughably lionised on this site, and an example of a Sharia state women are second class citizens.
1. A woman’s testimony in court is given half the weight of a man’s.
2. She receives half the inheritance if her parents die than her brothers.
3. If she divorces the father gets custody of the children once they reach 7 years of age.
4. The husband can divorce the wive by saying “I divorce you” 3 times. Impossible for a woman.
5. A woman aren’t allowed to drive.
6. A woman needs her husband’s permission to get medical attention. If he is absent or dead her son must agree even if he is a child.
Tell us Eoin how does this primitive medieval treatment of women equate to fairness?
This link http://www.weforum.org/pdf/gendergap/rankings2007.pdf gives the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap report and it ranks country on women’s rights compared to men. See where Ireland is? See where Saudi Arabia is? In fact have a look at the bottom ten. Apart from Nepal what have they got in common?
الأحد 05 ذو الحجة 1430 at 2:36 pm
@ the wife Well said. You don’t need to be patronised by these silly people. But nor should you be afraid to draw the obvious conclusions on your own
الأحد 05 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:16 pm
I agree with garland, you shouldn’t be patronized but that’s what western society does to you. Women are simply objects used to sell commodities, you are given (and make no mistake it is given) a certain freedom and led to believe in a superiority that does not exist in reality. Men have now convinced you that the removal of your clothes is emancipation, that sexual freedom is your right and promiscuity is your way of asserting yourself – and only men gain.
As for trust – well no person in their right mind would flaunt their goods in a dangerous area and not expect consequences – that’s not trust, it’s foolhardiness.
الأحد 05 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:22 pm
Another patronizing post. From the back of which instantly transferable Ministry of Truth weekly did you pick that rubbish off. And from a man who dresses up as an Arab and then then runs of whinging whenever someone gives him a weird look to say that about how women dress. I dress as I please and people can react by fancying me or not. I don’t deprive my sisters the right to do the same. Simple as
الأحد 05 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:43 pm
Ok Ill answer number 1 John, so your ok with a mna naked in front of your wife, once he says ‘Im not doing it for malicious reasons’ how the hell do you know.
And how do I disrespect my wife? because she doesnt want to look at other men and I feel that no man has the right to look at ANY womans body, unless of course she wants to.
ok number 2 the wife(that seems very respectful now that you are not even given a name) but you are foolish, yes you trust your husband, but are you honestly telling me that if there were thirty half naked women dancing in front of you and your husband you wouldnt feel even the tiniest bit uncomfortable, because if you say no, you are lying. its not about trust but his mind is not going to be on his dinner if thirty girls are dancing in front of him!! And about ‘enjoying each other’ would you be happy with your thirteen year old daughter dressing in a mini-skirt and going to a club with fifty half naked thirteen year old boys and girls? or would you let your daughter walk around town in a short skirt and a low cut top? how would you feel watching pervy men having a good stare at your daughters body? because I sure as hell would feel sick.
1) what do women need to be protected from? Who are raped more in society? men or women? I quote a comment from Owais ‘The Rape crisis centre Ireland Published a report that shocked the Irish society. The report claimed that at least one woman is raped every day in Ireland’
2) why don’t men ALSO need to be protected from what ever woman need to be protected from in society: as I said men are raped a lot less than women.
3)why does this article focus on women as if we are so weak that we even NEED protection? Men are stronger than women and if you read the thing I do say you may not need it but would it not be NICE????
4) why can’t women protect themselves in danger? Again men are stronger than women: not speculation, FACT
5) why don’t men need protecting??? I never said they dont, but as this is basically the last 2 questions phrased differently Ill say it again: MEN ARE STRONGER THAN WOMEN!!! I also feel they need protecting because MY RELIGION teaches me that women are precious and a woman who chooses to be your wife should be like a diamond to you. Muhammad(SAW) said ‘the best of you is the best to his wife’
And finally Paul: I dont believe there is one, let me say that again ONE islamic state in existence today. So any problems you have with Saudi I agree with you, women are given half the testimony as men, thats wrong because in the Quran it says that only in financial(business) matters is a womans testimony half that of a mans, thats understandable as women dont deal with business matters half as much as men do/should do. In Islam men are the bread winners, there is no such thing as a stay at home Dad. Dont get all feminazi on me and say ‘well a woman has every right to have a job’ because I agree. my wife wants to have a job I have no right to tell her no. but the point is men are bigger and stronger so they should do all the work. End of.
And about the vote thing. Before Islam the bible said ‘a woman to SPEAK in church is a disgrace’ and then you have the Quran which says ‘all men and women are EQUAL.’
You people have not used your brains very much on these ones have you?
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 12:49 am
You seem angry Eoin. Why does this religion seem to attract angry people who seem to get no less angry after they join it. The half baked logic demonstrated above could be disected but that would be cruel. I”d like to know why you’re angry?
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:14 pm
Half baked logic is the prefect phrase to describe all muslim arguments
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 5:43 pm
“And about the vote thing. Before Islam the bible said ‘a woman to SPEAK in church is a disgrace’ and then you have the Quran which says ‘all men and women are EQUAL.’” Why Eoin do Muslims engage in whattaboutery. I don’t care what the bible says as I am an atheist. The fact is women are not equal as the points have outlined above are not just Saudi law they are part of Islamic jurisprudence. You have no answer to do this so you dodge the issue. Islam ill treats women and makes them second class citizens. I also notice you didn’t, or possible couldn’t, mention the World Economic Forum report.
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:29 pm
Hi Whelan,
Regarding: “Ok Ill answer number 1 John, so your ok with a man naked in front of your wife, once he says ‘Im not doing it for malicious reasons’ how the hell do you know.”
Answer: I know because I would ask my wife what’s going on. You are also using surreal situations – you can’t just say ‘what would you do if a naked man was in front of your wife’, why is he there? what the situation? I got no problem if my wife sees a man nude. There is nothing wrong with being nude, Muslims need to grow up with regard to this.
Regarding: “ok number 2 the wife(that seems very respectful now that you are not even given a name) but you are foolish, yes you trust your husband, but are you honestly telling me that if there were thirty half naked women dancing in front of you and your husband you wouldnt feel even the tiniest bit uncomfortable, because if you say no, you are lying. its not about trust but his mind is not going to be on his dinner if thirty girls are dancing in front of him!!”
Answer: I know that’s for ‘The Wife’ (Hi honey bunny) to answer but I like to say something. My wife would indeed be comfortable, remember we talking about 30 woman dancing half naked, why are they dancing? Just because they are half naked it doesn’t mean they are seducing me.
Regarding: “would you be happy with your thirteen year old daughter dressing in a mini-skirt and going to a club with fifty half naked thirteen year old boys and girls? or would you let your daughter walk around town in a short skirt and a low cut top? how would you feel watching pervy men having a good stare at your daughters body? because I sure as hell would feel sick.”
Answer: I personally feel that 13 is a bit young, at that age I would expect her to dress normal, not like a Muslim, but normal like any other 13 year old Irish girl, but then again you’d consider that to be ‘half naked’. I think what’s really sick is that in an Islamic state your 13 year old daughter would be married to a dirty old man by now, probably had sex with him in the last 3 to 4 years and probably have kids, and all against her will and with a man she don’t love, that is sick.
Regarding 1,2,3 and 4.
Answer: You don’t understand do you? I’m not sure how can I even explain this to you. You are right about 4, that is the case most of the time. You should meet up with a bunch of female US marines and tell them they need your protection or that you can take them in a fist fight, now that would be worth watching.
Regarding: “You people have not used your brains very much on these ones have you? ”
Oh whelan, you fills me full of laughter, what that magazine you write for, I would enjoy reading it.
You are the one who is not using his brains, you believe in the Tooth Fairy called Allah !
الاثنين 06 ذو الحجة 1430 at 11:52 pm
ok so let me get this straight, you believe that what every other 13 year old girl wears is ok for your 13 year old girl to wear, I saw a girl in town and she was maybe 12/13 maybe a bit younger and she was wearing a belly top and tights and furry boots, number one SHES GOING TO CATCH PNEUMONIA and number 2 any pervy old man could see any part of her body that he wanted to see, thats sick. would you let your daughter wear the same? but you said whatever other 13 year olds are wearing….
Are you honestly suggesting that EVERY SINGLE 13 year old girl in an islamic state is married to an old man??!!!??? are you for real?! you have to admit you just sound downright stupid!
About the 30 girls dancing, are you saying that it is impossible for any girl in the entire world to do something that would make you lust for her, or think about her after that moment, not even for a minute?! if you say no, no matter what you are lying.
And come on you pleb!! female US marines?? what are you telling women ‘hey instead of getting married just get a female us marine to be at your side 24/7!’ come on you tool you know Im right just admit it for God’s sake!!
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 12:24 am
Whelan,
Ok, I go slow for you, it not your fault, your head is probably just overloaded with that Muslim nonsense you read…
Firstly, we were discussing women, not 13 year old girls, you asked a question regarding if I had a 13 year old girl and I said I would not like to see my 13 year old daughter dressed like that (if I had a daughter) – I didn’t comment on other 13 year old girls, but if you asked I would say that is up to the girl’s parents, not me. I have no say (and rightly so) in how one’s children are dressed.
Regarding 30 girls dancing, I did not say I wouldn’t lust for any girl, I think about a lot of women, there are a lot of women I would enjoy sleeping with, I could think of hundreds, women I know, women who are known on tv, in movies, in politics (no not Mary Harney) – but the thing is, I wouldn’t act on it, I love my wife and I would never cheat on her. That is what I’m saying.
Whelan – either you’re an retard or you need to go to Specsavers so you can see what you are reading. – I never said I’m telling women, instead of getting married, go get a female US marine. That is the most stupid thing ever! How could you even come up with something like that. I was giving an example on how in some situations a woman is stronger than a man.
You are a sad man Whelan…
Maybe someday I can look you directly in your eyes, face to face and tell you what I think of you, your religion and your god.
Will your hands and legs start shaking like the other muzzie cowards?
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 3:18 am
1. I am from NY and know very well how to protect myself, THANK YOU. in NY you do not only need to worry of rape but of all kinds of things. if you know anything you must know that there are several types of self defense courses where you learn how to take down a person 3 times your size and strength. This is what a woman usually does, take a self defense course so Men can not over power them. So i still need to know why we need to be protected when we can learn how to over come poeple and this self defense courses make us independent. Why can’t a woman be independent? so i still ask you what do women need to be protected from???? When i take a self defense course and i can take a man down that is way, way stronger them me…..tell me please….now that i am independent and can defend myself through knowledge and training…..i still need to know WHAT DO I NEED PROTECTING FROM???? I am independent, i can defend myself…..why do i need protecting??? please answer this for me
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 3:53 am
i would not feel uncofmy at all with 30 40 a thousand woman dancing and prancing around and NO i do not lie. Don’t take so much for granted. Now you where talking of rape before can you also tell me why then are there still so many tribes from the past and in the present day where each tribe member woman and man walk around 100% naked and they have no fear of anything happening to them? why do these tribes survive peacefully naked? women walk nude day and night, they grow up nude so do men in them societies, why then please answer me do they all get along fine and why do them men have total respect for them women in those tribes and why do the women have total respect for the men? how can they live their lives normal and naked with nothing happening to each of them? in our society for some reason we are made to be ashamed of our bodies, we clothes our bodies, why? once again we where born naked, the reason we put clothes on is to protect ourselves from the environment. to keep warm. the tribes in the amazon are in warm climates and they walk all around naked. once again we are human beings. we are naturally curious. if we clothe ourselves we are curious as to what is under the clothes. Proff…..tribes stay naked all their lives, they do not look at each other in sexual ways because they a persons naked body is normal to them. how come humans can live that way. and here we put on clothes and we are ashamed of our bodies. So why do woman need to wear clothes, why do men need to wear clothes? to keep us warm, dry and so on. we may walk around in ireland or america or england half naked and you have a problem with it, now what about them tribes that walk around fully naked? and how do you see that type of society? and look into how crime free and rape free them societies are….tell me what your views are on that type of culture? and after thinking about the cultures that live their lives naked, please explain to me again why you think “half naked” is bad. Please answer this question for me because from what i see in life….we are products of our own culture. some cultures fear the naked body, some cultures accept the naked body. What do you think of these tribes and how come they can all live in peace?
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:31 am
Just isn’t working is it
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:54 am
Dodged the issue eh Eoin? Plus ca change!
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 3:55 pm
‘Firstly, we were discussing women, not 13 year old girls’: so I take from your logic that 13 year iold girls arent females and are saying that what they do then wont affect what they do in the future.
‘you asked a question regarding if I had a 13 year old girl and I said I would not like to see my 13 year old daughter dressed like that (if I had a daughter) – I didn’t comment on other 13 year old girls’ yes you did you said ‘I would expect her to dress normal, not like a Muslim, but normal like any other 13 year old Irish girl’ I stated the fact that 13 year old girls in Ireland today dress LIKE PROSTITUTES, obviously not all of them but its whats seen as cool, thats a f***ing disgrace!
‘I think about a lot of women, there are a lot of women I would enjoy sleeping with, I could think of hundreds, women I know, women who are known on tv, in movies, in politics (no not Mary Harney) – but the thing is, I wouldn’t act on it, I love my wife and I would never cheat on her. That is what I’m saying.’ and one nbight your really locked in the pub youve just had a row with your wife and one of these women who you think of, regularly it seems, comes up to you and starts getting stuck in, are you saying accidents dont happen, are you saying that situation is absolutely impossible?
‘I never said I’m telling women, instead of getting married, go get a female US marine.’ ok but what is the point in mentioning female US marines? they are a tiny, minute, not even constitutes a percentage of the women in the world. So what was the point? what? they know how to defend themselves, so what? most women dont! And you are sad.
‘Maybe someday I can look you directly in your eyes, face to face and tell you what I think of you, your religion and your god.’ I fear no man. And that soldier that pointed his gun in my face can tell you the same.
‘I am from NY’: very good for you, then you have no right to speak about women in the IRISH society. Thank you for your input though
‘know very well how to protect myself, THANK YOU. in NY you do not only need to worry of rape but of all kinds of things.’ again thats in NY, we are in IRELAND, are americans really as dumb as they say on tele??!
‘if you know anything you must know that there are several types of self defense courses where you learn how to take down a person 3 times your size and strength. This is what a woman usually does, take a self defense course so Men can not over power them.’ And yet again, that is in America love, your in Ireland now, there are not several types of self defense courses available to most women in Ireland.
‘So i still need to know why we need to be protected when we can learn how to over come poeple.’ Are you telling the women in Ireland who have been raped or who are being raped that they should have taken a self defense course and they wouldnt have been raped?
‘Why can’t a woman be independent?’ my wife is completely independent and probably more so than you are.
‘When i take a self defense course and i can take a man down’ So you are always, always, always going to be able to take a man down and over power him for an indefinite lenght of time, no matter what the circumstances?
‘please answer this for me’ because this society is full of psychos and you may be able to overpower them, but walking through town on your own at 2 in the morning and a junkie comes up to you with a syringe, what are you gonna do?
‘can you also tell me why then are there still so many tribes from the past and in the present day where each tribe member woman and man walk around 100% naked and they have no fear of anything happening to them? why do these tribes survive peacefully naked?’ answer me this, how large are those tribes? what is their population? how many families are in each tribe. Because ‘the wife’ I studied tribes, such as the ones you are talking about, in Papua New Guinea. You feel they are free and have no problems, let me inform you of things that are a little less ‘common knowledge’. Men are the leaders and in some societies, like the ones you are talking about, women walk around the village on their knees to ’show their obedience to their men’. young boys at around the age of 8, leave the village to go live with the men and ‘learn the history of their tribe and learn how to be MEN’ and do you know how they learn to be men? they are raped by the men of the village and are forced to ‘perform oral sex on every male member of the tribe, and ingest their semen’. Sorry for the vulgarity but you dont know what you are talking about. these ’societies are built on 3 maximum 4 families or tribes, they are all cousins and if someone was raped the perpetrator would be found in a day. They dont look at each other in a sexual way because they we in societies in the west are taught that sex is for fun and that it is a game and for pleasure, they however hold sex as something for reproduction. They have total respect, sometimes. In Papua New Guinea those tribes dont have sex before marraige either, if a man is found to have had sex with a girl before they are married both of them are killed.
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:00 pm
OK Paul prove it to me, prove your statements with your own use of the Quran dont get it from some website get it from your own reading of the Quran where women are less than men.
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 5:17 pm
so you are avoiding the questions because you can not answer them. I may be from america Eoin but i do live in ireland so i have every right to speak of ireland. i would really like to know your answer. So suppose i take the self defense course….and now as i do live in ireland i am knowledged, trained and independent, what do i need protection from??? Please don’t try to avoid this question again. I am not telling those who are raped that they should have taken a self defense course what i am saying is that we women are fully capable of taking care of ourselves. We do not need a man to take care of ourselves. You also go on to say (we are in IRELAND, are americans really as dumb as they say on tele??!) so my response to that is, you are now lowering yourself to insults are you? sorry my friend but insults is a thing humans use for defense. I see you are trying to use an insult to avoid a very important question. You can not answer this question so you resort to insult. I do not fall for insults so please stop avoiding this question of….self defense group + living in ireland, why again do i need protection from a man?
Yes there are self defense groups in ireland so there may not be many but they are available. so please do not avoid this question. I live in ireland, i take a self defense group, why do i need protection????
You also say (my wife is completely independent and probably more so than you are.) let’s not assume things. You only know me from a handful of entries so do not assume if your wife is more independent then me. You are now trying to insult me to avoid the question. please stop pulling on these human emotions of yours, they will not work with me.
you also asked (So you are always, always, always going to be able to take a man down and over power him for an indefinite lenght of time, no matter what the circumstances?) my answer is YES i will and please do not answer this with a question of…..well what about when you are 90. my family members have lived far past 95 years old and both sides where fully capable of taking care of themselves. Keep focused eoin on my ONE SIMPLE QUESTION….. WHAT DO I NEED PROTECTING FROM WHEN I AM FULLY KNOWLEDGED, TRAINED AND NOW INDEPENDENT FROM NEEDING SOMEONE TO PROTECT ME.
and you asked a questions to me….(‘please answer this for me’ because this society is full of psychos and you may be able to overpower them, but walking through town on your own at 2 in the morning and a junkie comes up to you with a syringe, what are you gonna do?) i’m not like you so i will not avoid this question or use and insult to prevent myself from answering you. I have in fact walked through neighborhoods at 2am and at 6pm and there is no difference when it comes to someone ready to pin you with a syringe. What am I going to do? well what i normally do, even in everyday life walking through the safest mall in the world, i am fully aware of what is around me, and who is around me. Any place you are in the world you need to be aware of what is around you and you need to be able to read body language, i will spot them because i do not walk around in public unaware of my surroundings. I will defend myself from this due to awareness. If by chance i get stuck, i would go through the proper tests to see if i have been infected by things and by the way, how can a man protect me fromt his kind of situation? and by the way, how can you protect yourself from this situation? please answer your own question for me ok? and for the naked tribes you still never answered the one simple question of……the tribes that are naked….and after thinking about the cultures that live their lives naked, please explain to me again why you think “half naked” is bad.
once again please do not avoid questions with insults. I live in ireland keep in mind so i full right to ask this question of ireland. do not avoid the question by going in circles too….just answer this simple questions….after self defense course in ireland….being knowledge and trained…..what do i need protection from??? we are not talking about old age, we are not talking about children here we are talking about the average person the age of you and i or there about. what do i need protection from? it would be nice to know this simple answer. thank you.
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 5:40 pm
i also see that a person named paul finds the same problem i do. that you dodge issues. A human being usually dodges an issue because they are nervous, feel on the defense, are confused. it’s a self defense reaction. you do not need to feel on the defense with my questions. If i do make you feel defensive i’m am sorry but you have no need to feel that way. I just want a simple question answered. I do not know the reasoning behind everyone’s purpose here and everyone’s questions to you I just know my own purpose of these questions. I want knowledge of your religion. I do not want to fight with you eoin. I do not want to change the way you think. i totally respect that you have a purpose in life and totally respect that you believe and fight for what you believe in. I have absolute respect for your way of life. and i have total absolute respect for the way you live your life. You lead your life the way you want to lead it. you have your belief in a religion that you truly follow, i have so much respect for you because you walk through your daily life proud of what you believe in. I know on this site a lot of people fight you and insult you. People tend to use words to change how you feel and what you believe in. I am honestly not about that. i do not want to change you at all. i know in the end no matter what one says or does you will not change what you believe in. This is why i have total absolute respect for you because you will defend your belief to the end, and you will never change what you believe in. I have no intention of trying to change you with my questions i just want to know the answer. all i want is like i said, i just want an answer of why i need to be protected after i am fully knowledged, trained and now independent of needing a male human to protect me from such things as rape and so on.
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 6:08 pm
The koran might not specifically state that women are lower than men but there’s no need to be disingenuous and pretend that this isn’t implied throughout.
الثلاثاء 07 ذو الحجة 1430 at 6:39 pm
Whelan: “so I take from your logic that 13 year iold girls arent females and are saying that what they do then wont affect what they do in the future.”
Answer: No dummy, my logic suggests that a 13 year old is not a adult and is therefore up to their parents to decide
Whelan: “I stated the fact that 13 year old girls in Ireland today dress LIKE PROSTITUTES, obviously not all of them but its whats seen as cool, thats a f***ing disgrace!”
Answer: I don’t usually see it, but I think we may have different ideas on what’s is suitible or not.
Whelan: (spellings corrected) and one night your really locked in the pub you’ve just had a row with your wife and one of these women who you think of, regularly it seems, comes up to you and starts getting stuck in, are you saying accidents dont happen, are you saying that situation is absolutely impossible?
Answer: I can’t see it happening, no. It’s impossible if you want it to be impossible, you may not have control but I do. People cheat on their wifes with other woman and use the excuse ‘I can’t control myself’, but put the same men in front of a woman with aids, I bet they would have no problem controlling themselfs.
Whelan: “ok but what is the point in mentioning female US marines?”
Answer: To show that woman can be stronger, is your middle name ‘Forest Gump’ ?
Whelan: “I fear no man. And that soldier that pointed his gun in my face can tell you the same. ”
Answser: Well damn that soldier for not shooting you.
Funny, I had a shotgun pointed at me once before, a few knifes and a load of fists.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:25 pm
‘No dummy, my logic suggests that a 13 year old is not a adult and is therefore up to their parents to decide’ So you let other parents decide what your child wears. because you said you would let your child dress, and I quote ‘as a normal irish teen’ but you say its up to the other teenagers parents to decide.
‘I don’t usually see it, but I think we may have different ideas on what’s is suitible or not.’ Yes we do have different ideas on what is suitable or not but if you walk through the centre of town you will see young girls dressed like tramps and it is disgusting and horrible and their parents think thats ok. If your saying this ‘wear as little clothes as possible to look the best’ mentality among young girls doesnt exist you are either blind or ignorant.
‘I can’t see it happening, no. It’s impossible if you want it to be impossible, you may not have control but I do. People cheat on their wifes with other woman and use the excuse ‘I can’t control myself’, but put the same men in front of a woman with aids, I bet they would have no problem controlling themselves(Spelling corrected).’
You are saying that you have never been drunk in a pub and there have been other women, single women there? Are you saying the famous line ‘I was drunk I didnt know what I was doing’ has never been used? dont be so ignorant. You cant say its impossible because you are in pubs with other women all the time, Im assuming because I assume your Irish and I am making that assumption from watching my own irish family members. Its not about who has control and who doesnt, its about the fact that the situation is always there for someone to cheat. I however can say It is impossible because I dont drink, therefore my judgement cant be blurred and my lusts can be easily controlled and I am never in a room alone with a woman.
Come on man female US marines are a miniscule part of the population of the world and how many of them are in Ireland? come on Im talkin about irish women in irish society.
And about the last thing, what you want a medal?
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:34 pm
And to the wife,
you are capable of protecting yourself now that you have a self defence course, congratulations. But you are being very selfish, you are not thinking of the others who cant or dont want to take a self defence course. Like MY wife, who says ‘why should I take a self defence course when my husband is stronger than me and is militarily trianed, if I am ever going to a place where there is a high possibility of being attacked, he should and will be there.’
And you say you can read body language? some people do that sort of thing everyday, they know how to hide their body language, dont be so arrogant. For Gods sake Im trying to point out to men in Irish society that if they have a wife they have a duty and a responsibility to care and look after her. I do not dodge questions, you are not paying attention to what I am saying.
you need to stop and think for a second, ye ok well done you can defend yourself, now. But you are not always going to be in the same physical state, no Im not talking when your 90, what about when you are pregnant? Then you will turn to your husband to protect you.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:59 pm
I have never used the line about being drunk to my girlfriend – it’s a pathetic excuse. Nevertheless it doesn’t mean everyone has to change their actions just because a few people use it. Women shouldn’t have to dress in a particularly way in order to stop men lusting – men should change their behaviour you scumbag. Just another example of male dominated muslim society.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 2:26 pm
Whelan: “So you let other parents decide what your child wears.”
No I didn’t
Whelan: because you said you would let your child dress, and I quote ‘as a normal irish teen’ but you say its up to the other teenagers parents to decide.”
It up to other parents to decide what their teenage daughter wears, to a point, although a good parent always allow flexibility to a point, between daughter and parents. I wouldn’t let other parents decide for me no, but my own opinion I’m happy to let my fictional daughter to dress like most normal Irish teens.
Can you really not grasp what is being discussed or are you just playing with me by pretending not to understand?
Whelan: “If your saying this ‘wear as little clothes as possible to look the best’ mentality among young girls doesnt exist you are either blind or ignorant.”
I don’t go around looking at young girls like you just admitted.
Whelan: “You are saying that you have never been drunk in a pub and there have been other women, single women there? Are you saying the famous line ‘I was drunk I didnt know what I was doing’ has never been used? dont be so ignorant.”
I have been drunk in pubs while a teenager, I really don’t like the drunk feeling, not to the level you suggesting. I drink a few pints, feel a little bit buzzed, nice feeling, relexes are slow but I still have my morals and most of my judegement. Of course that line have been used, I never said it wasn’t used. You’re out of touch with reality, you can’t even follow our discussion.
Whelan: “Its not about who has control and who doesnt, its about the fact that the situation is always there for someone to cheat. I however can say It is impossible because I dont drink, therefore my judgement cant be blurred and my lusts can be easily controlled and I am never in a room alone with a woman.”
So you are saying that since you don’t drink and are never alone with a woman, you are safe ? What the matter with you, why can’t you control yourself? I’m often alone with outher woman, I never had a problem. Besides I feel people with multiple wifes is just a bad as cheating, no respect for the woman.
Regarding, Irish women, I’m sure I can find a few that have the ability to take you to the ground. You want to control woman and use the excuse of ‘protection’.
Regarding my last statement, I was making a point to you having a gun pointed at your head, as in so what? I had a gun pointed at me and I’m sure many people have.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 2:36 pm
Whelan, regarding what you are saying to my wife, I like to say something…
I do protect my wife but not because she’s female but because she somebody I love and care about, but I don’t protect her in the way you are suggesting. I would protect my brother, my father, my extended family, my friends, male or female.
I would protect as in, if they need my assistance I would offer it. If it a speeding car they didn’t see while crossing the road, I shove them out of the way, if somebody was violent to them, I offer my assistance – if they want it.
You using the stupid excuse of ‘protection’ as a means to control your wife.
And what about situations where wife is stronger than husband, should the husband stay home and not go out, and wear a burka?
Admin it, Islam is s**t and so are the people who follow it.
By the way, what military were you in? or are you too scared to tell?
John
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:08 pm
You actually cannot grasp the concept can you? this conversation is actually pointless, you regularly just go off the point instead of directly answering the statement and then accuse me of doing it. what is wrong with you?
you said, im paraphrasing, i would allow my daughter to dress like an ORDINARY irish girl. I said young irish girls dress like whores. then YOU went off the subject and said its up to the parents to decide. yes you are right but if you are allowing your daughter to dress like the other girls in society you are letting her dress like a prostitute and purely because that is what the rest of society dresses like. Therefore you are letting the parents decide. come on 2+2 people its easy to understand.
Next how dare you say I look at 13 year old girls, thats just pure slandering and as your wife said, people who use insults are just on the defence or nervous. And besides you dont even know what age I am.
Its like trying to argue with a child, as I said ITS NOT ABOUT CONTROL. its about being fair and equal to ALL members of society, YOUR system is unfair to the people who cannot control themselves. My system is a lot fairer on everybody, you think I would not love to be able to sit in a room with women? I actually used to get along better with women than I did men, I enjoyed their conversation and their company more than I did with men. But there are people I know who cannot control themselves, so to be fair on them I would not sit in a room with women. now I am way to shy, and that is to protect myself from being lustful over a woman who is not my wife, you said you fantasise about other women, how would you like someone fantasising about your wife, or your mother? its not so nice when its turned around and thats the point.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:10 pm
And I meant to say thank you to ‘the wife’ and could you please put a name i genuinely dont like refering to you as ‘the wife’ its not showing the respect you have shown me.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:13 pm
You can fantasise all you like. You cannot commit a thought crime, it’s when you act on it that makes it wrong. If you can’t control yourself that’s too bad for you, most people can.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:19 pm
you can call me indi eoin for independent
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:58 pm
Eoin i see that you say…..For Gods sake Im trying to point out to men in Irish society that if they have a wife they have a duty and a responsibility to care and look after her……Isn’t this general in every aspect of life? don’t you as a son, a daughter, a father, a wife, a friend, an aunt, an uncle…..a HUMAN BEING to have the responsibility and duty to care for and look after all around you that you love and even strangers on the street? I think Eoin what it is is that people are so angry at how Islam treats women that anything on this subject of even the simple words of what you said above will be taken and dissected because of what we (the people outside of islam) see hear and learn of the way of life in islam. As i said we are a product of our culture. I will admit that if i grew up in a culture of islam and lived the life exactly the way it is to be lived i am sure i’d have few problems with it..if i’d even have any. that way of life would be normal to me. I come from such a different way of life then islam so of course i’m going to enjoy my way of life better. I have no right in the world to say what culture or religion is better. I only know for myself the culture i come from is what i prefer. I DO understand Eoin that your wife doesn’t want to take a self defense course and leaving religion out of this concept I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU AND HER. In the way of…..it is a shame the world is not safe enough for not only women but men and children. We as humans should be disgraced by the way we treat each other. A woman should not HAVE to take these courses but in todays life in many countries it has to that. But if a woman doesn’t want to take the course she should not have to. she should be able to live her life making her own decisions and men, women and children should be able to live their life worry free of crime and all the sick things us humans do to each other. As i said early on personally i follow no religion. I have my own thoughts in that aspect. i just wish that all can learn how to live in peace and all can learn how to respect each others views on religion and i also wish that humans can live life without anyone pushing thoughts of religion on each other. I do not just stop at religion i wish we can all live a life together freely and truely freely. With our own thoughts, religion, culture, family life without any one pushing on us how we should live…or what we should believe in. This makes anyone angry. We want to live our lives the way we want to live. Many people get angry at you Eoin because they do not like having religion and ways of life to be pushed on them. I am sure you feel exactly the same way. Lots of people on this site are in fear that their way of life as they know it will change forever. You can not blame them. No one wants their way of life to change. If they do want change then they personally change themselves. Most people here want ireland the way it is. I live in ireland but i am from NY i would give anything to have my my american culture in ireland but I can not do that. I need to respect the irish and their culture because i am a guest in their country. If i want the american culture then i need to go back to america, i can not change ireland at all. this is what most people want. they want to live their lives the way they know their lives to be. they do not want their way of life changed, can you blame them eoin? No matter what you say on this site or what you post it will not change anyone’s mind of how to live. You may be able to help them understand islam better but you can not make a point to literally change the irish way of life. If i walk in to your house and want to change every aspect of you way of life within your house you would hate me, fight me and want me gone. Personally i do not want to see the irish culture gone, destroyed or changed. Ireland is ireland is ireland and i strongly believe that no one should change the way ireland is. Thank you for your replies to me.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 6:24 pm
Thank you for your post ‘the wife’ and I have a question or two:
1. You say no one should change the way Ireland is – I know you don’t really mean that at face value. The corruption and nepotism that defines political life here needs changing. In that regard everyone should be given a chance to offer what they consider better. We believe the Islamic system is the best, you may not agree but the point is you’re never going to get 100% consensus on an issue like that. As Muslims we accept that a Shariah state is not something that will happen tomorrow, but it will happen – of that we have complete certainty. It doesn’t require 100% of the people accepting it, no more than democracy does.
2. Ireland has changed in the last decade, rights have been introduced that now grant women a semblance of equality. Would you have been content in the 60s and 70s just to accept this because ‘no one should change Ireland’? Clearly when there is a need for change, it becomes a duty, right?
3. We’re all sick of the way people treat each other, but teach people they are little less than animals and what do you expect. Islam raises both men and women to a dignified state, and while we, like you, lament the poor condition of Muslims in Muslim lands it’s important to understand that those situations exist because people have departed from Islam. The solution is to return.
I do hope you continue posting, I’d encourage you to read around the site and not simply take things at face value. You may be pleasantly surprised.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 6:39 pm
1. i do not take things at face value. I do admitt that i am not fully knowledged with every single situation or religion or culture in the world. the only thing is that i am open to listening and learning. I do this because i enjoy learning of all kinds of cultures and religion. this does not mean that i wish to change my own views or ways of life. I enjoy people and i enjoy personalities and i enjoy that so many people of the world live so many different ways. this is a personal interest of mine. I love seeing a world with such differences. I see the world as absolute bore if everyone was the same and lived the same. I may be just a product of my own culture of being around so many different types of life but this is what i enjoy. I am totally against pushing something on someone as i said. With my comment on No one should change ireland…i still believe this. Ireland is for the irish, the irish are the only one’s who have the power to come together and make decisions for their nation. I believe that no outsider has the right to land in a country, point out it’s flaws and make advances to change their way of life. Only the irish have the right to change their nation, if they want a change. as i said above would anyone want me to walk into their house hold and change every aspect of their home life because it doesn’t agree with how my house hold is, or i see it as wrong the way they live within their house. I have no right to walk into your home, you have no right to walk into my home.
I personally do not like religion. I have my own beliefs in what happens when you die. I do not believe in A god, I do not believe that there is one higher then us. i am not an athiest i have very different ideas on life. I live according to My own beliefs. I am sure that Islam raises both men and women to a dignifed state. But if you look around most religions do the same. Why does it have to be islam? why does it have to be christianity? why does any religion need to teach us how to grow up and how to think, why can’t these things be tought in a home by adults who are totally capable of knowing right from wrong. Why do we need religion to guide us, we can think for ourselves and we can raise children I personally believe that i do not need a religion to raise a child. I was raised religion free and my parents where able to let me know what was right and wrong. some cultures say one thing is right other cultures will say it’s wrong. That is what makes life wonderful to me.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 7:37 pm
As Eoin, myself and the vast majority of contributors to this site are in fact Irish, then I’m sure you’ll agree that we have every say in how the future of Ireland should be shaped – we’re in the house so to say.
There is no morality outside of religion.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:09 pm
Whelan, I agree that this conversation is heading towards being pointless, we all expressed our views and got the chance to speak our minds so it served it purpose.
I just like to finish up on a few things, firstly, I answered all the questions you asked, just because it not the answer you want doesn’t mean I missed the question. If I did indeed miss a question, ask again.
You didn’t answer most of my questions but that’s ok.
Regarding how girls dress, you seem to think girls in Ireland dress like whores. I don’t think they do, you probably think a girl in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt is being dressed like a whore?
I can promise you that I’m neither in dfence nor nervous, if you didn’t look at 13 year old girls how can you comment on 13 year old girls? Ok, I’m being a bit smart here but the truth is, I just don’t care…
I don’t care what age you are either, close to death I hope. How disapointed you gonig to be once you discovered that you waisted your life following a god that doesn’t exist.
You say my system is unfair, firstly I didn’t create the system, yes it’s unfair, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than Islam which is the worse thing ever, it’s disgusting in every respect.
The system (western culture?) is unfair to people who cannot control themselfs? That what you said Whelan… See this folks? Islam at its most disgusting. Is he suggesting this:
“…… A Man rapes a woman because he can’t control himself… punish the woman……” That’s Islam for you.
I don’t care who have fantasies about my wife or my mother, you can have fantasies about my cat if you want.
It not so nice when it turned around? Like I said I don’t care?
Now, go ahead and describe your wife for me…
John
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:13 pm
“As Muslims we accept that a Shariah state is not something that will happen tomorrow, but it will happen – of that we have complete certainty. It doesn’t require 100% of the people accepting it, no more than democracy does.”
Mujaahid, just because your book says it will happen doesn’t mean it will.
What percentage is required for a Sharia state to happen? If you don’t know, give a good guess.
John
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 9:55 pm
It depends John. It doesn’t require 100% if it is left to the people. If however an army subdues you, then even fewer. But you must understand, Allah has promised it, we believe it and it will come to pass.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:17 pm
Lets say for argument sake does happen within my lifetime, I would fight it every step of the way, every way possible and so would the majority of Ireland.
I personally don’t believe it, it easy to see how it could never happen.
Would you support acts of violence or be involved or support an invasion army if there was one? As to bring Sharia law to Ireland?
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:33 pm
I am physically aligned with Ireland John, but am morally and spiritually bound to Islam.
الأربعاء 08 ذو الحجة 1430 at 10:49 pm
Interesting way of answering, thanks.
John
الأحد 12 ذو الحجة 1430 at 7:18 pm
I come back to see Eoin has dodged the question again and no mention of the fact that the WEF ranked the Islamic countries at the bottom.
الاثنين 21 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:22 pm
John if the time comes for me to fight for my religion I will not hesitate for a second whether it be in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya or Ireland and if you speak about my wife again I will make sure you are the first person I fight when that time comes.
And John there is no islamic country on the face of the earth today so that is why I ignore you and the WEF. look at the rape statistics for your own country, fix that, and then come back to me.
الثلاثاء 22 ذو الحجة 1430 at 1:04 am
Eoin Whelan, if you fight for your religion in Ireland and if it’s at the cost of Irish culture (for example if you were fighting for Sharia law for Ireland) then expect me to be facing down your every move. That’s my promise to you.
I talk about your wife anytime I want, it’s called free speech. How is she doing by the way? Good I hope. I feel bad for her being married to you.
I look forward to when you and your crazy mob come to fight me, it’s always an honor to fight for one’s country, culture and people.
By the way, your tough man behaviour online is laughable, face to face in real life your legs be shaking in fear. Here’s a tip, use the bathroom before coming face to face with me, you’ll be hummilated enough.
One more thing, there are thousands of other people like me willing to defend this country for the cancer that is Islam.
الخميس 24 ذو الحجة 1430 at 2:15 am
Well not as bad as I feel for your wife being not cared about by her husband, that is what you said wasnt it John? ‘I dont care’! yep that definitly came from you. And John, you wouldnt stand a chance. Your a weak, bitter, scared, old man. And I fear no man. Allah is greater than you John, just get the bloody hell over it.
And about fighting Islam is it an honour, or stupidity to fight a losing battle I wonder…..?
الخميس 24 ذو الحجة 1430 at 5:47 am
Whelan, I never said I didn’t care for my wife. You are delusional, even more so than the typical muslim. I never said such a thing.
You saying I’m a weak, bitter, scared old man? See, you making things up again. If I were all that how would you know? You can’t tell how old I am, nor am I weak or strong etc, but you know what I’ll answer for you.
If early 30’s is old then yes I am old.
I’m not weak, not super strong either, just a typical 6 foot 2 Irish man, I would say average fitness. Scared, no, I’m not scared. I’m the type who if I were in a plane that was falling down I be sitting there thinking what will happen when I die? What will I see? Will who I am continue to exist? and probably regreats about al lthe things I didn’t get a chance to do, but scared? No. You mean fear no man, but I fear no man, woman, animal or god.
Bitter? No, I’m not.
Allah is not greater than me, I challenge him to kill me where I sit? Emm, where is that lighting bolt? How can something that doesn’t exist be greater than I ? He don’t exist, get over it angry muslims.
A losing battle? Whelan, every battle muslims are involved in they lose. The yanks are winning, even the Jews (who aren’t excatly good warriors) are winning.
I won’t make up things about you just to insult you (although I see why you have to – what’s there to insult about me, not much) but I will tell you what I think you are…
An angry muslim, delusional, bad mannered, writer, average to below average intelligence, love and cares for his family, gives to charity. I know some of those things are good, I’m just trying to give an honest opinion of what you are based on what I know about you. Instead of your childish name calling. I think you’re a coward, you’re too quick to play the tough man which gives me indication to this. You probably not happy with the size of your manhood, that’s based on the way I see you always having to constantly be in defense mode.
Now I could be all wrong, but I think I got you figured out to a point.
Want to meet up for a drink to discuss?
الخميس 24 ذو الحجة 1430 at 12:53 pm
Whelan surely you realise that invoking the power of allah to someone who doesn’t believe in him is utterly useless. How can he fear something he doesn’t believe in or how can he ‘get the bloody hell over it’??
الخميس 24 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:05 pm
That what he don’t get, Ross. He might as well say the boggie man is under my bad.
الخميس 24 ذو الحجة 1430 at 11:34 pm
‘Whelan, I never said I didn’t care for my wife’ Yes John I think you did Ill refresh your memory: ‘I dont care if anyone fantasises about my wife, mother, daughter….’ isnt that what you said? so using logic you must have no real respect for your wife if you dont care about even her dignity, even in the minds of other men.
‘You saying I’m a weak, bitter, scared old man? See, you making things up again. If I were all that how would you know? You can’t tell how old I am, nor am I weak or strong etc’ I judge you solely on the righteousness spoken of in the Quran and jodging by that righteousness you are a bitter, scared and very weak man. it must be hard with your closed mind trying to comprehend that.
‘If early 30’s is old then yes I am old.’ Well thats well older than me!! so ye OLD
‘I’m the type who if I were in a plane that was falling down I be sitting there thinking what will happen when I die? What will I see? Will who I am continue to exist?’ Islam can answer all those questions. So while your the one sitting there asking yourself all these questions Im the one asleep not even worried about it because either way, its Allahs will.
‘Allah is not greater than me’ That one will get you in trouble
‘He don’t exist, get over it angry muslims.’ I dont believe in atheists does that mean YOU dont exist?
‘A losing battle? Whelan, every battle muslims are involved in they lose. The yanks are winning, even the Jews (who aren’t excatly good warriors) are winning.’ Hahahaha the bit about the jews actually genuinely made me laugh. And John if the Americans are winning, why do they need 30,000 extra troops…..?
‘what’s there to insult about me, not much’ but yet all you know of me is on a website I could be a woman for all you know…
‘An angry muslim’ At the hypocrisy of democracy, the israelis, hitler and america yes.
‘delusional’ Dont know where that comes from.
‘bad mannered’ I apologise
‘writer’ Not very good at it though
‘average to below average intelligence’ I am a lot younger than you John but I feel our levels of intelligence are roughly the same, your not as world-learned, so to speak, as I am though well thats what I feel.
‘love and cares for his family’ only because my religion tells me to
‘gives to charity’ again only because Im ordered to
‘I think you’re a coward’ But how can I be John, absolutely nothing scares me, I am a lot less tied down by the world than you are John, you can fear a lot of things but I fear nothing because I believe in, and trust in Allah. You John have nobody to trust in. I kind of feel sorry for you.
‘You probably not happy with the size of your manhood’ I think well have to leave that argument until were face-to-face John hahaha
‘Want to meet up for a drink to discuss?’ Anytime John Ill be in Clonskeagh Mosque from 12 o’clock onwards, ask anyone to speak to Eoin, everybody knows me or just look around, you cant miss me(Im the white one)
الجمعة 25 ذو الحجة 1430 at 12:52 am
Too much time in RCSI Whelan if you’re that comedian, pity you’ve only got book smarts.
الجمعة 25 ذو الحجة 1430 at 4:18 am
Eoin, regarding my wife, you can’t control what people think or feel. I respect my wife, I would die for my wife, I love her greatly. To think that i don’t is a lie. But you can’t control what other people think nor punish them for it.
Me bitter, weak old man so says the Quran? See, more proof that it’s wrong.
Ok, I’m old.
“‘Allah is not greater than me’ That one will get you in trouble” – How will that get me into trouble? From who? You? what would you do if I said that to your face? not as an insult but as an opinion?
I am not an atheist. This universe is too great and wonderful to happen by accident, something created us, maybe we created ourselves. The answer maybe too complex for us humans to understand. I don’t know, I just don’t know, but I’m not an atheist (but I don’t dislike them).
I accept your apology regarding being bad mannered.
“‘writer’ Not very good at it though ” – nah, your writing is good.
Intelligence, who knows for sure unless we did a IQ test and compare results.
“‘love and cares for his family’ only because my religion tells me to ” – I dins that hard to believe, I’m sure you still would love and care for your family if you had no religion or a different religion.
You say I have nobody to trust in? I trust in myself, I know if I die I will continue to exist. I don’t fear death, I do fear for loss of others etc.
Regarding the plane falling down, thinking those things. I didn’t say I be worried, interest, even excited to see what will happen.
“‘You probably not happy with the size of your manhood’ I think well have to leave that argument until were face-to-face John hahaha” – err No, don’t want to compare manhoods, that kinda disturbs me slightly!
We might meet sometime Eoin (don’t take that as threat – it’s not) if I’m in Dublin, but then again, we would only disagree on the primary concerns of this country.
الأربعاء 01 محرم 1431 at 7:21 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment
Activists say harassment against women is rampant in the Muslim world irrespective of what women are wearing. This bit specifically says “In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.”